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Generally speaking, AA, "cherry picking" usually means someone is very selectively putting into their pile what suits their way of thinking while ignoring what doesn't. Given that definition or understanding, "cherry picking" is one of the best tools we have to push biased propaganda. Not so good when it comes to arriving at objective conclusion based on ALL there is to consider, AKA the truth.
"Low hanging fruit" AS WELL AS what isn't so easy for everyone to reach...
yes,definitely a valid point. we can turn any reasonable notion and make it look unreasonable. and visa versa. How people handle that can shed light on what type of person we are dealing with.
And thats why we look at the piles and the classification system use to separate the items. was it cherry picking that deemed the piles irrelevant or was it the piles themselves?
or to your example. Is the fruit bad just because I walked up and picked it up off the ground?
Reading your posts I am quite sure there is nothing wrong with your intellect. Your anxiety is a concern though. And I totally rely on spell checker! And not being great at math means nothing. Many smart people in the world suck at math.
And by the way, I know all about "... my anxiety can paralyze me at times. Little noises can irritate me as my brain too easily loses my train of thoughts".
My wife went through a time of experiencing some serious anxiety some years back, but my wife is also one of the sharpest people I know (went from temp working the phones to Senior Commercial Escrow Officer in one of the biggest escrow companies in the country).
Never had trouble driving the freeways before, then suddenly the anxiety attacks made her fearful. One day we needed to pick up our daughter at the airport, and my wife told me she couldn't drive the freeway to the airport for fear of another anxiety attack. Of course I didn't mind driving, but we were both concerned about this anxiety problem. I told her that she could always pull over if she felt one coming on. Seems simple but the thought seemed to do the trick, and my wife drove to the airport that day no problem. I drove us all back.
To this day my wife credits me for helping her overcome her anxiety problem with that simple thought. Fortunately, my wife hasn't experienced any anxiety problems for a good long while now. For whatever any of this story may be worth to anyone...
I think what you are talking about is the "Ala Carte" in the cafeteria at school where you can just take one thing or mix and match, etc... I wasn't allowed to do that in my cafeteria.
I take Jesus' teachings in their entirety.
I was taught that there was no literal hell, so...
Interesting, don't you think? We've all been taught different things about hell, believe different things about hell, but one thing all of us sure as hell know about is hell. So that teaching one way or another has certainly been very broadly if not universally received.
...
Thanks 303 Guy, you are too kind. I guess I am probably okay at math....just my brother is really really good at it and since I kind of raised him a little bit it stinks to get passed by intellectually so quickly when I use to teach him things and now he is clearly superior. I compare myself a lot to my brother and bf and fall short mentally....and height wise too!
You're welcome and thank you. I've been to your thread and posted an addition there - something I hope might be useful to you. I had an idea you might have started a thread on those lines.
yes,definitely a valid point. we can turn any reasonable notion and make it look unreasonable. and visa versa. How people handle that can shed light on what type of person we are dealing with.
And thats why we look at the piles and the classification system use to separate the items. was it cherry picking that deemed the piles irrelevant or was it the piles themselves?
or to your example. Is the fruit bad just because I walked up and picked it up off the ground?
The piles either balance the scale of objective observation and consideration or tilt the scale in the direction of one agenda or another. Few are able to manage or promote a balanced scale as we all tend to put our thumb on one end or the other to help tilt the balance just a tad in the direction we prefer. Just a tad by some. Others with all their might...
To this day my wife credits me for helping her overcome her anxiety problem with that simple thought. Fortunately, my wife hasn't experienced any anxiety problems for a good long while now. For whatever any of this story may be worth to anyone...
Thanks for sharing. That is actually very interesting because it demonstrates that we do have control of our minds (although often it feels that we don't). I am actually Ok now. I have posted my self help on QuackerBaker's thread.
...Friendly question on what is peddling Christianity....
So about 5 and a half years ago my mom died, my dad became a dumpster fire, and I am the oldest with 1 sibling.
My dad had other "priorities" so I was responsible for putting my brother to bed pretty much every night...even if he was home.
Making my brother brush his teeth, making him wash up, making him tidy up his corner of the room, and also reassuring him as we ended up moving in a manner that wasn't great.
I would make him listen to me read a children's Bible every night for several years before I would move on to another book of his choice or other thing at bedtime (he would often ask about math, which taught me to think about how I explained things)...until he finally started putting himself to bed around junior high age. He would often resist the Bible stories as he wanted to get right into his choice time. Eventually, he started to like it.
Am I a bad person for not being driven as the white snow, but yet still once upon a time peddled religion to my brother that was struggling at the time as I was too? Why must I be perfect in order to use Jesus to comfort myself and my brother during difficult times - when nobody is perfect? Jesus pulled me through an extremely difficult time and made me have many positives today.
Today, my brother says he isn't very religious, but he is religious, and he found those times valuable and he even recently told me that he will keep that children's Bible forever and that he actually read some from it recently as comfort during the Coronavirus shutdowns to help ease his mind.
Did I do something that bad in your mind by peddling religion to him?
P.S. I am a pacifist so when I used the phrase "make him listen" up above, consider the context as in we will do this or we won't do that.
Just genuinely curious if the above upsets you...no worries.
...
Fair question.
1. Part of the answer -- a broad part of the answer -- comes down to whether or not you think a person should own another person. Do you think a husband "owns" his wife? Do you think a parent "owns" a child? In terms of children, I think parents have a responsibility to lead their children toward being successful adults. There are things children have to learn -- how to be clean and healthy, how to treat people with fairness and respect, how to be responsible, how to be successful in our society. Some of the more mundane aspects of those things are "givens"...like brushing teeth or keeping a clean room. But the more one gets into freedom of thought issues, the more children need to be guided, and not forced. Some of the most moral people I know behave as they do out of personal choice, and I have little respect for those who do the right thing simply because someone else (including a god) tells them they have to, or else. The degree of requiring a child to do something versus leading a child to do something varies with age.
In 33 years of being an educator, twice I knew of parents who did what I think is the exemplary way to raise a child in terms of religion. These were families that did quite a few things together as families, and in both cases they had a rule -- that usually Sunday, but sometimes Saturday, would be "family day". That one day a week the family would spent pretty much together, if not for the whole day, at least a good part of the day. And roughly once a month the family would go to learn about a religion. They might go to a methodist church one month, a baptist church another month, a catholic church, a Buddhist temple, etc. In some cases they went to not church services, but more cultural related events. For example, they didn't feel comfortable going to a mosque, but they still tried to take the children to places where they could learn a bit about Islam. I'm not sure if they went to synagogues; but the children were introduced to the Jewish religion, as well. The point was, the parents believed in learning and freedom of thought. Over time the kids were free to go their own way in terms of religion.
And how refreshing that is compared to a family I am still in contact with who are in a bit of a turmoil right now. Culturally you would expect the family to be Hindu, but they are catholic. Now the son has decided to marry a Muslim girl, and although the end of the story has not happened, the son seems to be on the verge of converting to becoming a Muslim because the girl's family REQUIRES it, while his own family will, at least thus far, not attend the wedding. And we've all heard of such things many times.
2. Peddling. One thing you have to understand is that most Buddhists do not believe in proselytizing. We believe that there is little value in trying to force a religion onto someone else. That a religion is only truly appreciated if one seeks it out. Through long summers and then living there for a while after retirement, I spent about 3.5 years in Thailand. Unless the weather was bad, every one of those days I would do quite a bit of walking. And I walked into at least 1,300 temples over that period of time. When I did, I always looked like a Western tourist with my camera. I was always acknowledged, but never approached. If I had questions and could find someone who spoke English, my questions were always answered. But not once in all that time did anyone ever say anything approaching "you should...". But I was always welcome. I once walked into a temple where there was some sort of ceremony going on. I didn't want to intrude, so I began to walk out. A woman welcomed me to come back in and join them. I was given a front row seat. Only after the ceremony did I learn that it was a funeral, and the person who had welcomed me in was a family member of the deceased. Another time I was welcomed into a temple where a group of people were making ceremonial objects, and I was invited to help them. In both cases, not a word was said about becoming a Buddhist...unless I asked a question a question related to that. For several years in Colorado I frequently tutored a couple of monks in English. When non-Buddhists would show up at the temple, the monks would welcome them in, show them around, but they would always let the visitors lead the conversation; they would answer any questions asked, but never put out information not asked for. Let's contrast that with the methodist church that I would visit several times a year. When I would go in, a greeter would gently start the peddling since they didn't recognize me. I'd be asked to fill out a visitor card, which of course had room for my address, telephone number, and email. During the service "attendance notebooks" were passed around, again asking for such information. And then I would receive mailings and other communications. That's peddling, and while gentle at that church, I still found it offensive. In the community where I live now in Arizona there are over a dozen churches right here, without even going out of the retirement community. I'm smart enough to find one...if I want. I don't need to be pushed. In fact, the very things that turned me against the christian religion all involved being "pushed".
3. One year when I was a principal a notebook of what I will call "thoughts for the day" was available. The kinds of things that were positive and good endings to the morning announcements. They were typically good moral lessons that could be summarized in about a minute each. A frequent theme was "The Golden Rule". But more importantly, over time the message was that various cultures and religions used "The Golden Rule". The lessons were also about inclusion. Fairness. And so on. And not once did I ever have a parent complain about the message because they were never messages dependent on any particular religion, or religion at all. They were sort of like many of the things that are found in this essay (which was part of a book you may have heard of): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/bo...466396/excerpt If you choose to read through this, these lessons are as important in any culture or religion...or no religion.
4. Since you asked, do I think you're a bad person? No. Do I think you're misguided? Yes, but even then you're on the better end of things than many. I'll end this missive by telling you about my grandmother. My parents divorced when I was 2, and for a variety of reasons the ultimate agreement was that I would be raised by my mother's mother and stepfather. Gram was a basically good person. But, as I got older, particularly into my early teens, I realized that whether it was toward me, or my grandfather, or my aunt or mother, my grandmother was a nag. And her favorite line was, "I'm only doing this for your own good!" Bull toddy. She was doing it to have power over other people, particularly relatives. She wanted to have her own way. Always. I'm 70 now. Last year, for the first time in many years, I went to a psychic...one I didn't know. I told her nothing. Just let her do the reading. The first thing she said was, "There's a spirit standing behind you. It's a woman. And she's crying and she keeps saying. "I'm sorry. I made a big mistake nagging you. I thought I was doing it for your own good. Please forgive me". The psychic said, "But this woman who raised you is not your mother, is she? She's your grandmother, isn't she?" We talked for a few minutes about the situation and she said, "Can you forgive her?" My answer was no. The die has been cast. And just like kamma (karma), there can be consequences to behaviors we choose. None of us is a perfect person. One of the lessons I learned in my life was to not nag people. Give guidance when asked, but never nag. Respect people's choices, but don't let them place their choices on me or others.
You're a good person. And you are thinking and reflecting.
Generally speaking, AA, "cherry picking" usually means someone is very selectively putting into their pile what suits their way of thinking while ignoring what doesn't. Given that definition or understanding, "cherry picking" is one of the best tools we have to push biased propaganda. Not so good when it comes to arriving at objective conclusion based on ALL there is to consider, AKA the truth.
"Low hanging fruit" AS WELL AS what isn't so easy for everyone to reach...
I'm not sure I agree with you there.
The actual definition is: "the action or practice of choosing and taking only the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc., from what is available."
I've never picked cherries, although just yesterday my neighbor brought me a bowl full of bing cherries, with which I will make cherry crisp tonight.
But I do have a couple of orange trees and a lemon tree out back, and when I pick a couple of oranges or lemons for some recipes, do you want me to pick the bad ones? How would that be logical?
In a conversation with a monk in Bangkok, I asked about some aspect of Buddhism that I don't believe in. The monk said (paraphrased after all these years), "It's okay not to believe a particular teaching if you have contemplated it and tested it. Don't throw it away. Just set it aside. Perhaps someday you'll come back to it...or not". That is what I see as appropriate cherry picking.
The actual definition is: "the action or practice of choosing and taking only the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc., from what is available."
I've never picked cherries, although just yesterday my neighbor brought me a bowl full of bing cherries, with which I will make cherry crisp tonight.
But I do have a couple of orange trees and a lemon tree out back, and when I pick a couple of oranges or lemons for some recipes, do you want me to pick the bad ones? How would that be logical?
In a conversation with a monk in Bangkok, I asked about some aspect of Buddhism that I don't believe in. The monk said (paraphrased after all these years), "It's okay not to believe a particular teaching if you have contemplated it and tested it. Don't throw it away. Just set it aside. Perhaps someday you'll come back to it...or not". That is what I see as appropriate cherry picking.
Not the definition of "Cherry picking" I know better...
"Cherry picking is the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position."
Even with your definition, it's not hard to equate what is "most beneficial or profitable" and opportunistic when it comes to picking what facts you want to use to make an argument vs what facts are best left unmentioned...
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And not being great at math means nothing. Many smart people in the world suck at math.
