The R&S Pantheism Thread (hell, quote, God, beliefs)
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Ha, ha! That is what I have been doing for the past 15 years since GldnRule asked me to provide it. My 62,000+ posts and 24 Blog posts here on CD are my attempts to "do it."
I don't doubt that you had an experience, but I think you then decided to interpret it in a way that you were inclined to.
Believers believe what they want to believe, and I don't think you're any exception to that rule.
Given the amount of intellectual effort involved in establishing a Synthesis and rationale that made my experience plausible using science, I would have preferred to have avoided the need to do so. I can't say I would prefer to have remained an atheist, because that is not true. The experience was beyond awesome and I look forward to my death with anticipation. In fact, I think what so many Christians call the rapture accurately describes the experience and may actually refer to our end of physical life (death in many ways.) Of course, the silly "end-of-the-world" nonsense in the "Left Behind" version is purely human imagination gone amok, IMO.
I can't say I would prefer to have remained an atheist, because that is not true.
Yeah, we know, because exactly zero people have ever held that position. I have never in my life encountered a "I found out God exists, unfortunately. I wish that He didn't", person. Or even a, "God exists, and I have no opinion about the matter." Etc.
Just like everyone else who believes in an afterlife, you want there to be an afterlife, so you've convinced yourself of it. Congrats.
None of the fundie types at this forum who believe in Hell, ever think that they are going there. It's always for other people. Believers in afterlives are all conveniently all bound for a great afterlife, according to them.
I'll grant you that if there is a God, and if there is an 'afterlife', then everyone goes there no matter what they do or don't do, and there's no way it's something negative.
But there's no evidence for that. If there's something cool after we die, okay, I guess I'd enjoy that. But I'm not expecting it, so I can't be disappointed.
Also, I hope it's not forever. I don't care how cool it is, eventually I'm going to be tired and just want some rest. Back to the long nothingness/nonexistence from whence I came before my parents conceived me.
ThAT means the universe DEPENDS on God's existence NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS YOU SEEM TO WANT TO SUGGEST! GOD'S EXISTENCE does not depend]on the universe. As far as we can tell, it is part of God and has always been so. It is humans and their religions who have created all the CREATION nonsense. I apologize for my inappropriate cynicism. I do appreciate your efforts. But do you even see the inappropriateness of inferring that God depends on the universe when it is only the other way around???
you are saying the universe has always been a part of God. that is the same as saying god has always contained within it the universe. There has never been god without also having the universe, for you in your beliefs, you have stated repeatedly can't have one without the other. since they are joined at the hip and never without each other then they ARE reliant on each other.
Quote:
The fact that as far as we can tell God has always had what we perceive and experience as the universe and everything in it does not mean the existence of God is in any way DEPENDENT on its existence. It is entirely possible for God to exist without one as far as we can tell (it is possible for you to exist without your womb). But God does seem to have one so it is moot. Remember, it is ONLY the portion that WE PERCEIVE AND EXPERIENCE OF GOD from within God, IMO.
there are no facts regarding God.
there are beliefs about God.
Actually, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly PRIOR to my encounter. That is why it so thoroughly disrupted my view of Reality and launched me on a decades-long quest within the sciences using what we DO know to satisfy my intellect that it was possible. I would not expect anyone to accept it absent a similar encounter but I am willing to explain and share my Synthesis of it with any who are interested. Peace.
Yet when we ask you to provide this alleged evidence, you evade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Ha, ha! That is what I have been doing for the past 15 years since GldnRule asked me to provide it. My 62,000+ posts and 24 Blog posts here on CD are my attempts to "do it."
I went through your blogs last week. Your attempt failed. Next time you waste my time, I will charge 200 € pro hour.
It's like, make it 100,000 posts and 50 blog posts of this kind of meaningless circular nonsense, and then we'll talk. Only 62k and 24 blogs is just not enough to convince.
ThAT means the universe DEPENDS on God's existence NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS YOU SEEM TO WANT TO SUGGEST! GOD'S EXISTENCE does not depend]on the universe. As far as we can tell, it is part of God and has always been so. It is humans and their religions who have created all the CREATION nonsense. I apologize for my inappropriate cynicism. I do appreciate your efforts. But do you even see the inappropriateness of inferring that God depends on the universe when it is only the other way around??? The fact that as far as we can tell God has always had what we perceive and experience as the universe and everything in it does not mean the existence of God is in any way DEPENDENT on its existence. It is entirely possible for God to exist without one as far as we can tell (it is possible for you to exist without your womb). But God does seem to have one so it is moot. Remember, it is ONLY the portion that WE PERCEIVE AND EXPERIENCE OF GOD from within God, IMO.
when you think a thought, is that thought your "body part"
when you paint a picture is that picture your "body part"
when you sing a song, is that song your "body part"
no. it is not.
and are your thoughts "alive," the pictures you paint "alive," or the songs you sing "alive"?
no they are not.
you keep saying creating is "magic" and "nonsense"
when it is ordinary and around us in our daily life.
to ignore that or deny that is not being "grounded in reality."
None of your analogies work. The universe is not something God created. It is part of God's LIVING existence. We are the ones whose PERCEPTIONS AND EXPERIENCES create what we call the universe and everything in it in our minds because that is what we see of God from within God.
ok, look at statement in bold above.
it is saying that the "universe and everything in it" is something that is created in our mind through our perceptions.
a. i agree with that.
b. each person creates the universe they live in and the universe they see. The universe and everything in it is created in our minds. That is how i read and understand the view expressed in bold above.
c. so we "think it" "we perceive it" in our minds.
d. are the things you think in your mind alive and living?
e. do the things you think in your mind reproduce?
f. the things you think in your mind today, were those thoughts always there in you? the thoughts you will think next week, have those thoughts always been with you?
i am taking what is said in post above at face value and it just does not match up with other elements of the same belief system stated previously.
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