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Thousands of young men, mostly poor, were sent to vietnam to die for a useless war. Those who returned were so damaged they could not retrieve the life they left behind. Their family never saw the son or the husband they had bid goodbye. And the nation has treated the veterans most poorly.
So you die protesting the war or you die killing other people. Either way you die. Many veterans returned and became anti-war because they had seen what they saw.
Or you can protest the war
—and no doubt it was a useless war—without killing yourself. As a married man in his thirties and a bona fide conscientious objector, there was no scenario where Norman Morrison would end up drafted, much less sent halfway across the world with a rifle in his hand. Morrison set himself on fire in November 1965, as LBJ fulfilled JFK’s legacy by rapidly escalating American presence and involvement in the Conflict. Nixon picked up where Johnson left off. The U.S. did not appreciably scale back its involvement until 1973 and it wasn’t until 1975 that Saigon fell and the Americans departed one and for all.
Didn't say they were. And remember, I know a teeny bit more about what Islamic terrorism can do than anyone else here, don't I.
It's just different. Terrorists by definition are not at war as a country. They have suicide vests because they don't have stealth bombers and the ability to overthrow and control governments. I don't know if you are seeing on TV there what's going on in Iran as protestors against the extremist Islamic government are being executed, but there is no denying that that horrendous government is a direct result of American and British meddling in their democratic process in 1953 for greed in the form of oil. Yes, everybody responsible for that is dead now, but even in the Bible, resentments were handed down for generations.
America stuck its nose into other countries' business and still does without regard for how it affects the people on the other end, and we can't act shocked when it comes back to bite us in the ass. You now have generations of Muslims who have heard nothing about America except what was done to them by our military and government in the past, and those types are ripe for recruitment to put on those suicide vests.
Not claiming to know what the solution is, either, except to have dialogue with the non-extremists of those countries and show them the better side of who Americans are.
Most Americans don't know much about the history of the Middle East, and of course the "meddling" began long before 1953. How the ME was rearranged by the allied powers after WWII is another good point at which to consider the history that resulted in so much resentment and violence there in the ME. More than enough reason to give the militants incentive and inspiration to strike back. In whatever way they could think to strike back. A problem that continues to this day in a very real way.
All very sad and not much anyone can do about how things were done then or how things have evolved to the point they are today. Not to justify or condone terrorism in any form either, but it is hard to see how so many Americans don't have much a clue about any of this really, or don't recognize that terrorism has been perpetrated from all sides in ways no one should ignore just because we're on one side or the other.
People have had delusions of grandeur coupled with suicidal ideations since time immemorial. Nothing about self-immolation, or any similar form of “sacrifice,” is non-violent because you are acting violently toward yourself. It’s sad. It’s a waste of human life. It’s not a form of sacrifice that actually saves another human being like, for example, declining a seat on a lifeboat of the sinking Titanic so that someone else can be rescued in your place.
MLK, Jr. and Gandhi were assassinated for their activism, but they didn’t stage one-off grand suicide displays—probably because they knew they could accomplish far more alive than dead. They were martyrs who died for their beliefs, but at someone else’s evil hand.
Agreed. There are certainly better ways to protest wrong-doing over undoing yourself.
And Christianity says their religion is worshiping a false god. There were periods of history when Christians literally pinned giant crosses on their clothing and went marching into their lands to make war against them.
I am not really seeing a huge difference in the behaviors, just the technology for weaponry. War is war, and humans are humans. Our propensity to kill and take from one another is part of our flaws, what some call original sin.
Yes, sometimes we do have to engage bad people to keep America safe. It's when we label people as bad and engage them in order to keep America rich that Christians need to speak out.
Not just THEIR lands...
What of all the well documented history related to how Christians invaded native lands in the Americas? As also just part of the story.
Why not oppose war actions more? Perhaps because we're far too inclined toward war for purposes of advancing our own interests, and because we can...
So, the OP is suggesting we should have stayed neutral in World War II and let Germany and Japan divide up the world?
I do oppose the US acting like the world's police. War should be a last resort to insure US security from invasion or direct harm. I don't believe war should be used as just an extension of politics. We do go to war far too often, because it is immensely profitable. I don't agree with that.
I agreed with the war in Kuwait. I did not agree with the war in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Beyond that, sadly, war between nations is as natural as arguments between individuals. Sad, but true.
The sort of sentiment that sadly resigns itself to accepting the "least common denominator" in what is always a rather defeatist manner. I'm always encouraged by the people who are not so quick to think "it's always just been this way and so it must be." I'm glad there are people out there who push toward a better way. Only thanks to those people do we make the progress we do. Slow progress thanks to the defeatists, but progress none the less.
Someone has to do it. Thank God it is the US, as imperfect as it is.
Perhaps someone or something or some country needs to do it, but do it better. Far better, or we don't make the progress we should be able to enjoy. That's the thing. If that's the role of the United States, then for the love of enough already, let's not keep making the same sorts of big mistakes.
Agreed. There are certainly better ways to protest wrong-doing over undoing yourself.
Quote:
The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre and the Kent State massacre, were the killings of four and wounding of nine other unarmed Kent State University students by the Ohio National Guard on May 4, 1970, in Kent, Ohio, 40 mi south of Cleveland.
wikipedia
These were anti-war protesters. When Iran does this to the protesters we are shocked, just shocked. How easily we forget how we kill our own people who protest injustice. People with conscience who exercise their Right to protest are heroes and they are dying for our safety, so we can be safe with our family. I do not possess their valor, but I admire their courage and conscience to do the right thing and express my gratitude.
These protests had a lot to do with Johnson finally ending the war, withdrawing the troops, and his decision not to run for re-election.
wikipedia
These were anti-war protesters. When Iran does this to the protesters we are shocked, just shocked. How easily we forget how we kill our own people who protest injustice. People with conscience who exercise their Right to protest are heroes and they are dying for our safety, so we can be safe with our family. I do not possess their valor, but I admire their courage and conscience to do the right thing.
These protests had a lot to do with Johnson finally ending the war, withdrawing the troops, and his decision not to run for re-election.
People are well aware of the Kent State shootings. My stepmother was actually a Kent State student when it happened (although I knew about this major historical event long before her specific connection). The shootings are inexcusable, to be sure, but they were in no way premeditated. The National Guard units dispatched on campus were poorly trained in crowd control. They should have shot into the air—and not into the crowd—when students began throwing rocks. The protestors and soldiers actually had peaceful interactions in the weeks leading up to the tragedy. Throwing rocks at armed combatants isn’t my idea of valor or intelligence, but it certainly shouldn’t result in a death sentence, and most of the people injured and killed were not engaging in such behavior.
Two of the students killed, William Knox Schroeder and Sandra Lee Scheuer, were non-participants who were simply walking to class. The other two fatal shooting victims, Allison Krause and Jeffrey Glenn Miller, were involved in the protests. As an interesting footnote, although Kent State’s campus was 5% Jewish at most, all of the fatal shooting victims were Jews except Schroeder.
Also, LBJ did not end the Vietnam war—far from it. He was disillusioned enough to not run for a third term, sure, but Nixon kept the “adventure” going through his entire presidency and did not begin scaling back American military presence until the very end of his tenure. It wasn’t until halfway through the Ford Administration when America departed Vietnam once and for all.
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