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What are you talking about? Just because I don't feel bad? Okay.
If you support the murder of another life - any life - then you are not pro-life.
It's pretty simple. You place yourself in a position of making a value judgment of one life over another, and therefore have absolutely no moral authority on the issue of valuing life.
If you support the murder of another life - any life - then you are not pro-life.
It's pretty simple. You place yourself in a position of making a value judgment of one life over another, and therefore have absolutely no moral authority on the issue of valuing life.
Can't rep you enough. The double standard among many "pro-lifers" (as opposed to what? Pro-death peoples? Absurd, really) is simply astounding.
Seriously, who cares? One was one too many. You saw his ad. He even did late term elective abortions.
Seriously.. if you don't have the answers then why bother? I saw an ad. I have seen zero evidence of what he performed.. stats.. numbers of late term abortions.. how late etc.
Obviously.. you have none of this information either.
Either way, quoting from Dr Tiller's website, courtesy of google cache, with links (emphasis is mine):
Thousands of patients throughout the world have received quality reproductive health care services at our clinic.
Uhh... reproductive care is much more encompassing than ... abortions.
Still no data..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
The statement that "viability is not a set point in time" is incorrect, by the way. 24 weeks is considered the "age of viability", with some cases of babies surviving (and thriving) after being born as early as 22 weeks gestation.
So a baby with 1 heart valve is as viable at 22 weeks as one with all heart valves in place..
yeah didn't think so.
again nothing you've stated by Tiller is wrong..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
Although Dr. Tiller was a Family practitioner (and possibly a gynecologist), his website makes no mention of performing any other medical services besides abortions.
Probably because other patients were scared to death that they might get blown up..
people are weird like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
Terminating pregnancies for any reason, elective or otherwise, at any gestation was this man's forte and he was very open about it being so.
and? I thought this was about "late term" abortion..
by the way.. how many elective "late term" abortions are performed each year? lets go with any abortion performed after 21 weeks.. mothers health not in danger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
Should he have been killed for that? Again, certainly not, but let's not try to sugar coat his career path because of his untimely death.
lets also be "real" with the numbers.. the 60,000 you quote is not an "elective late term" number nor is it even a "late term" number...
Tiller offered FREE abortions to "celebrate" the 30 anniversary of Roe v Wade. He was very blantant on what he could do under the law and no one could stop him. Did this rile the killer---maybe it did. Most abortionists are very quiet about the whole thing.
I think Tiller got cocky since he had the KS governor (Kathleen Sebelius, our new Health and Human Services Secretary) in his pocket.
If you support the murder of another life - any life - then you are not pro-life.
It's pretty simple. You place yourself in a position of making a value judgment of one life over another, and therefore have absolutely no moral authority on the issue of valuing life.
I always thought from most of your posts that you were different than the rest...but I see you are not. For one thing...did I ever call myself pro life? I think mid and late term abortions are terrible. And early ones really are bad too....I never said I supported the guy being killed now did I. I just don't feel bad. How does "I don't feel bad" translate into "I support his killing?" That is ridiculous! Surely you are smarter than that. It's like Saddam Hussein (sp?) I don't feel bad that he was executed....but I don't support it either. I don't really support execution of murderers or babies.
Uhh... reproductive care is much more encompassing than ... abortions.
Still no data..
So a baby with 1 heart valve is as viable at 22 weeks as one with all heart valves in place..
yeah didn't think so.
again nothing you've stated by Tiller is wrong..
Probably because other patients were scared to death that they might get blown up..
people are weird like that.
and? I thought this was about "late term" abortion..
by the way.. how many elective "late term" abortions are performed each year? lets go with any abortion performed after 21 weeks.. mothers health not in danger.
lets also be "real" with the numbers.. the 60,000 you quote is not an "elective late term" number nor is it even a "late term" number...
You can not justify this man's practice of elective late term abortions on healthy babies beyond the point of viability with the excuse that not all of them were late term. That's like justifying an abusive spouse's beatings by saying "Well, not all of the hits left marks. So he didn't do anything bad."
As for "reproductive health care" being more encompassing than abortions, there's only one location on the entire website where they state anything regarding women receiving reproductive health care, and everywhere else they straight up promote their practice of late term abortions. And the reason they probably mention it at all is because they also provided birth control. I've not seen a single thing on this doctor that's stated he's done anything else in the realm of reproductive health care. Can you show me where he performed IVFs? Did he deliver any living babies? This guy promoted himself as having more experience at performing late term (after 24 weeks - remember that's the point of viability) abortions than anybody in the Western Hemisphere, Europe, and Australia. Wichita Abortion Clinics
Of course a baby with a congenital heart defect is not viable. Not once in any of my posts in this thread have I stated an opposition to medically necessary abortions. My problem is the practice of elective abortions performed beyond the point of viability.
You want numbers? Alright, here's some from Dr Tiller's own website from a 13 year snippet of time when he was performing abortions (remember, he was in practice for 36 years, so this is hardly a snapshot of the actual numbers.). You mentioned a heart defect, so let's spit that one out first.. In the 13 year period he has statistics for on his website? Only 5.4% of the late term abortions Dr Tiller provided in that time frame were the result of cardiac anomalies in the fetus.
The average gestation for his abortions? 27 weeks. 3 weeks beyond the point of viability. A baby born at 27 weeks has a greater than 80% chance of survival outside of the womb. However, the full scope of gestation that he would perform abortions was from 15 to 38 weeks. 38 weeks! A fetus is considered "full term" at 37, and has a 100% chance of survival outside of the womb as early as 32 weeks.
George Tiller MD - Wichita, Kansas - Late Abortion Care (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:http://www.drtiller.com/fasum.html&hl=en&strip=1 - broken link)
How much more evidence is it going to take to get you to see that this man was performing elective - non medically necessary abortions - beyond the point of viability? He never hid it, he advertised it!
You can not justify this man's practice of elective late term abortions on healthy babies beyond the point of viability with the excuse that not all of them were late term. That's like justifying an abusive spouse's beatings by saying "Well, not all of the hits left marks. So he didn't do anything bad."
Good because I never did that. I asked for and continue to ask for the statistics that nobody seems to provide.
Bill O'Reilly quotes 60,000 abortions when he knows full well those aren't 60,000 late term abortions. Its called perspective..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
As for "reproductive health care" being more encompassing than abortions, there's only one location on the entire website where they state anything regarding women receiving reproductive health care, and everywhere else they straight up promote their practice of late term abortions. And the reason they probably mention it at all is because they also provided birth control.
I wouldn't normally link to the dailykos as I fully understand its position. However, given you've provided me nothing more than an "ad"... I'll counter with nothing more than an unsubstantiated claim by another person.
In 1975 my Mom noticed an indention in her left breast. She called and made an appointment with her OB/GYN, Dr. George Tiller. After his initial examination, he ordered a biopsy. While performing the biopsy he immediately knew that the lump was cancerous. Instead of just closing and scheduling surgery, he “grabbed a handful”, his words not mine. Her cancer Dr. credited this quick thinking by Dr. Tiller with saving her life, and due to this she didn’t even have to undergo chemotherapy.
I guess "Tiller The Mother Saver" doesn't have the same ring..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
I've not seen a single thing on this doctor that's stated he's done anything else in the realm of reproductive health care.
You haven't looked well enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
Can you show me where he performed IVFs? Did he deliver any living babies?
I don't know.. then again I'm not calling him a baby killer.. so it seems its up to you to provide some stats on how many late term abortions he actually performed..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
This guy promoted himself as having more experience at performing late term (after 24 weeks - remember that's the point of viability) abortions than anybody in the Western Hemisphere, Europe, and Australia. Wichita Abortion Clinics
Probably because it was true. I want to know about ELECTIVE LATE TERM ABORTIONS. I couldn't give a rats you know what about MEDICALLY NECESSARY LATE TERM ABORTIONS.
Bill O'Reilly said he performed an elective late term abortion on a young woman because she wanted to go to a concert.. I'm asking for the proof.. any freakin' proof at all of elective late term abortions for trivial non medical reasons..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
Of course a baby with a congenital heart defect is not viable. Not once in any of my posts in this thread have I stated an opposition to medically necessary abortions. My problem is the practice of elective abortions performed beyond the point of viability.
but thats not what you originally posted is it? Be more specific next time.
and again.. I ask for any bit of information concerning the amount of "elective abortions" he peformed that weren't "medically necessary".
I've yet to receive any of those numbers..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
You want numbers? Alright, here's some from Dr Tiller's own website from a 13 year snippet of time when he was performing abortions (remember, he was in practice for 36 years, so this is hardly a snapshot of the actual numbers.). You mentioned a heart defect, so let's spit that one out first.. In the 13 year period he has statistics for on his website? Only 5.4% of the late term abortions Dr Tiller provided in that time frame were the result of cardiac anomalies in the fetus.
Well Gollly Wally! What were the other 94.6%? I'll copy and paste for you since you conveniently left it out..
Central Nervous System (42.9%)
Genetic (19.4%)
Skeletal (9.5%)
Cardiac (5.4%)
Renal (4.2%)
Pulmonary (1.4%)
Fetal infection (1.3%)
Gastrointestinal (1.2%)
Premature Membrane Rupture (1.1%)
Twin/Twin Transfusion (0.4%)
Other / Miscellaneous (13.2%)
Hmmm.. I'm looking.. I don't see anything that states "Mother had a migrane" or "Mother wants to go to a concert.."
again these are "fetal anomalies"
about the only number you go possibly go with would be the "Other / Miscellaneous".
So again.. you've proven nothing other than Dr. Tiller states on his cached website that he performed late term abortions for a variety of MEDICAL REASONS of which only "Other / Miscellaneous" I would want to dig into further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
The average gestation for his abortions? 27 weeks. 3 weeks beyond the point of viability. A baby born at 27 weeks has a greater than 80% chance of survival outside of the womb. However, the full scope of gestation that he would perform abortions was from 15 to 38 weeks. 38 weeks! A fetus is considered "full term" at 37, and has a 100% chance of survival outside of the womb as early as 32 weeks.
All that would be great information if he had performed those on Medically viable fetuses.. But he didn't did he? See above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1
How much more evidence is it going to take to get you to see that this man was performing elective - non medically necessary abortions - beyond the point of viability? He never hid it, he advertised it!
Actual evidence of which you've provided zero to that cause. In fact the LINKS YOU provided actually show contrary to what you are putting forth as "evidence".
Now.. If you are stating that Dr. Tiller falsified medical records.. thats a completelly different story. If thats your story though.. state it.
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Absurd, really) is simply astounding.
