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akm4: Why do people "need" an abortion. Is it like needing water or food or something like that? That's what I think of when I hear the word "need."
Preterist
For many situations where the child cannot be cared for or the mother cannot sustain her life without it, people most certainly do "need" an abortion as much as needing water or food.
You might ask why we need war or we need automobiles or we need to eat meat (all ways that sanction the killing of life). In our primitive society, we often need a choice in many circumstances.
If you voted for Bush in 2004, you are pro-choice because you sanctioned government to choose whether or not to continue a war ending innocent lives that had, by that point, been proven to be rooted in lies.
akm4: An adult is of more importance to this society than an unborn child! There I said it for you. That wasn't so hard, was it?
Question to pro-aborts: Where are YOU and those wonderful "caregivers" five, ten, fifteen years down the road when that woman who allowed a murderer to kill her unborn child is suffering post-abortion trauma?
Instead of aborting our children, this society needs to change the "reality" that you are so set on accepting without a fight.
Preterist
I don't want or need you to speak for me or anyone else here. Surely you can make your point without such arrogance and condescension. What's the point of having this forum if you will be speaking for all of us?
"Pro-aborts"? I have never heard of anyone being pro-abortion. That is a nonsensical term which is the product of propaganda; nothing more. Pro-choice is used for a reason. It actually describes the position.
Lastly, children cannot be aborted, for a woman cannot be pregnant with a child. Killing a child and terminating a pregnancy are not the same. Hyperbole doesn't help either.
I think calling people "pro-abortion" is akin to calling people "pro-war". I don't know many who favor war, but many support the choice our government has to enact war and kill people for a perceived greater good.
To me, they are on and the same. One issue is just giving government the power of choice and the other is giving a mother.
Our collective goal should be to end demand for both.
And why is it your hope and wish that no one would ever "need" an abortion? What are you saying? Are you admitting that there is something wrong with it? If it is not the taking of an innocent life, than what's wrong with it? Why should it be rare?
Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing that abortion should be legal but rare. Why do people want it rare? They want it rare because they KNOW that it is the taking of an innocent life. And if they know that it is the taking of a life, why do they still defend it?
This is not my opinion (I'm fine with abortion, personally), but I think I can understand this view. After all, this is how I view medical testing on animals: it's morally questionable, I wish we could do without it or at least only do it very rarely, but sometimes it has to be done.
Does anyone who takes any glee in Dr. Tillers death have any idea of the following:
1. How many late term abortions he performed?
2. What the circumstances were of those cases?
Billo The Clown stated that one woman had a late term abortion so she could go to a concert which is a flat out lie.
So are there any statstics out there concerning what I've asked or is it all from TV Faux news punditry?
I'm not "taking glee" at the murder of this man. I think it's a horrible shame what happened to him. However, I don't think we should gloss over his medical record simply because he's now deceased. Dr Tiller's clinic actively advertised late term abortions, both for fetal anomalies and for elective reasons. It was his business, and he wasn't ashamed of it.
The guy did do elective abortions beyond the point of viability, that's not something that can be argued. We may not know the exact scenario each woman was in, but we do know that he performed medically UNneccessary abortions on women as late as the third trimester when the babies could have been delivered without any increased risk to the health of the mother.
but we do know that he performed medically UNneccessary abortions on women as late as the third trimester when the babies could have been delivered without any increased risk to the health of the mother.
You have a web ad. Surely there is more. I'm looking for a guesstimate.. a number.. something.
You have a web ad. Surely there is more. I'm looking for a guesstimate.. a number.. something.
I would show you his website, but it's been removed out of respect for the family. :shrug: I'll see what else I can turn up, but I would assume that sort of information is scarce, if not completely unaccessible due to medical record privacy regulations. Statistics for abortions are also somewhat incomplete, as there's not much in the way of requirements for doctors to report abortion numbers. I did find one source containing an MP3 of Tiller stating he'd performed over 63,000 abortions, but as to it's accuracy or legitimacy I do not know.
Edited to add that I even tried using Archive.org's "Way Back Machine" to view a cached version of the drtiller.com website, but received an error that the drtiller.com website address had been blocked by Archive.org
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