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My hope is that no one would ever need an abortion. My hope is for all pregnancies to be planned, wanted, and free from complications. That's not reality, though. Therefore I hope all women will have access to safe and legal medical care, and for their caregivers to be safe from assassins.
Last edited by akm4; 06-02-2009 at 04:22 PM..
Reason: typo
I don't think I missed your point, I just think you and I see "worse" as being different things. Maybe his late term abortions won't be picked up by someone else, as only a few in the US does them now anyway. One can only hope.
One doctor here who worked at the clinic said he was going to keep the clinic open and do the work as far as the women that are there now but last I heard they are planning on shutting it down.
Tiller's father did abortions when they were illegal. Tiller found out about it after his father died. He was going to be a pharmacist but then decided to do abortions instead.
The sanctity of life is the heart of this issue...even the Dr's life. The murderer put himself in the same category as the Dr. Sadly, there are thousands more Dr's that will continue on the work...killing the dr is not the solution.
But he was a late-term murderer. There are only a few of them left--thank God!
Preterist
Last edited by Preterist; 06-03-2009 at 07:43 AM..
I think everyone should feel bad that he is dead. Just take a moment and stop thinking about abortion and think about his wife, kids, family, and friends. Someone very important to them has been murdered in cold blood. If you really can't feel bad there is something wrong with you.
Okay so I guess I could feel sorry for the family...not the doctor. I'd have been ashamed to be his family!
There is a difference though, between state-ordered execution to satisfy justice and cold-blooded vigiantilism.
We pro-lifers thoroughly condemn the murder of Tiller.
And just when do you think that state-ordered execution of this malicious murderer was going to happen, kdbrich?
Here is a question for pro-lifers (and I myself am one)? If Dr. Tiller were in his murder chamber (aka clinic) with three newborn babies and while he was about to inject them all with a lethal poison, someone shot him in the head, would it be murder? WE pro-lifers make a big deal about how an unborn baby is a full human being, yet we make a distinction between the rights of this same doctor to legally murder those same babies just minutes before they were born. In one instance the man who shoots the abortionist is a vigilante; in another instance, he is a hero!
Why does it matter WHERE those babies are--in the womb or fresh out of the womb sitting in infant seats? Are we really committed to protecting them? Just asking?
Don't get me wrong--I am not totally condoning the actions of the man who shot Tiller the baby killer, but are we not being inconsistent in our beliefs of what constitutes a life worthy of being protected by all means available? In just a matter of minutes in the life of a baby, he is not worthy of being protected by all means available or worthy of being protected by all means available.
Personally this society makes me sick. Here is a man who killed viable babies while they were still in the womb and he is a respected member of a "church"--a "church" apparently more than happy to receive his blood money into the collection plate he passed out as an usher! His wife characterizes him as a "good" man who cared about women. Puke, gag, vomit, barf! That is not the sentiment of the 14-year-old girl whose baby was burned to death with saline solution and who was then told to push her dead, burned baby out into the toilet!
Remember the recent outrage over the mother who took her son and fled because she and he did not want him to receive chemotherapy and radiation to treat his Hodgkins lymphoma? That 14-year-old boy said that he did not want the treatment. The courts and social services stepped in and said he was too immature and too unwise to know what was right for him. Oh really? But a 14-year-old girl is mature enough and wise enough and informed enough to decide to have a risky abortion--a procedure whose results will stay with her the rest of her life! Where were the courts and social services when that fully developed infant was being burned to death? He was immature; he was not able to speak for himself? What a country!
To all you pro-lifers out there--how is your peaceful objection to the plague of abortion working for you? Just asking? Maybe we should all go to Tiller's funeral, hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and mourn the loss of this great man whose life involved the heinous murder of over 1,000 innocent babies. And then afterwards, perhaps we could swing by the jail and visit the man who put an end to his madness, whether right or wrong. But no, we can't do that. He's a horrible, disgusting, loathesome person who killed just one man who was allowed to be born and enjoy many decades on this earth--a man who took the lives of innocent children. Afterall, we must keep our priorities straight, right?
Me? I am torn between condemning him or shaking his hand!
I don't think a baby who dies soon after birth would be available for adoption.... have you READ about what Dr. Tiller did?? He provided late term abortions (which required doctors referral) for women who's children had life threatening illnesses that would cause them to die soon after birth. He also provided abortions for women who's children would cause THEM to die or be otherwise harmed.
This wasn't some guy who just had a late term abortion clinic open to the public.
There are many fetal issues and problems that can only be determined late into the pregnancy and cannot be cured or treated. In many of those cases, the child would die in utero close to birth or shortly after, or the mother had a high probability of dying during childbirth.
The Dr. was doing a very difficult thing and it was an option that many women were glad to have. The Dr. had clergy on the premises and had buriels/last rights/baptisms of the aborted children at the families requests. He was not a murderer.
For one thing, if there was something terribly wrong with the baby it is still wrong to kill it. These were late term! Babies! Another thing...if there was something wrong with the woman it is ridiculous to say she'd survive a late term abortion but not birth. Either way the child has to be born! Abortion should be limited to very early term.
And just when do you think that state-ordered execution of this malicious murderer was going to happen, kdbrich?
Here is a question for pro-lifers (and I myself am one)? If Dr. Tiller were in his murder chamber (aka clinic) with three newborn babies and while he was about to inject them all with a lethal poison, someone shot him in the head, would it be murder? WE pro-lifers make a big deal about how an unborn baby is a full human being, yet we make a distinction between the rights of this same doctor to legally murder those same babies just minutes before they were born. In one instance the man who shoots the abortionist is a vigilante; in another instance, he is a hero!
Why does it matter WHERE those babies are--in the womb or fresh out of the womb sitting in infant seats? Are we really committed to protecting them? Just asking?
Don't get me wrong--I am not totally condoning the actions of the man who shot Tiller the baby killer, but are we not being inconsistent in our beliefs of what constitutes a life worthy of being protected by all means available? In just a matter of minutes in the life of a baby, he is not worthy of being protected by all means available or worthy of being protected by all means available.
Personally this society makes me sick. Here is a man who killed viable babies while they were still in the womb and he is a respected member of a "church"--a "church" apparently more than happy to receive his blood money into the collection plate he passed out as an usher! His wife characterizes him as a "good" man who cared about women. Puke, gag, vomit, barf! That is not the sentiment of the 14-year-old girl whose baby was burned to death with saline solution and who was then told to push her dead, burned baby out into the toilet!
Remember the recent outrage over the mother who took her son and fled because she and he did not want him to receive chemotherapy and radiation to treat his Hodgkins lymphoma? That 14-year-old boy said that he did not want the treatment. The courts and social services stepped in and said he was too immature and too unwise to know what was right for him. Oh really? But a 14-year-old girl is mature enough and wise enough and informed enough to decide to have a risky abortion--a procedure whose results will stay with her the rest of her life! Where were the courts and social services when that fully developed infant was being burned to death? He was immature; he was not able to speak for himself? What a country!
To all you pro-lifers out there--how is your peaceful objection to the plague of abortion working for you? Just asking? Maybe we should all go to Tiller's funeral, hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and mourn the loss of this great man whose life involved the heinous murder of over 1,000 innocent babies. And then afterwards, perhaps we could swing by the jail and visit the man who put an end to his madness, whether right or wrong. But no, we can't do that. He's a horrible, disgusting, loathesome person who killed just one man who was allowed to be born and enjoy many decades on this earth--a man who took the lives of innocent children. Afterall, we must keep our priorities straight, right?
Me? I am torn between condemning him or shaking his hand!
Preterist
Wow. What a thing to think about. Makes me a little ill. This man was a monster. How could he call himself a christian? I'm no big time christian, but even I can see how this goes against basic morality. To hold a live baby in your hands and then just kill it?! How bout we shoot him in the knee cap and save the 3 babies?!
For one thing, if there was something terribly wrong with the baby it is still wrong to kill it. These were late term! Babies! Another thing...if there was something wrong with the woman it is ridiculous to say she'd survive a late term abortion but not birth. Either way the child has to be born! Abortion should be limited to very early term.
My hope is that no one would ever need an abortion. My hope is for all pregnancies to be planned, wanted, and free from complications. That's not reality, though. Therefore I hope all women will have access to safe and legal medical care, and for their caregivers to be safe from assassins.
akm4: Why do people "need" an abortion. Is it like needing water or food or something like that? That's what I think of when I hear the word "need." And why is it your hope and wish that no one would ever "need" an abortion? What are you saying? Are you admitting that there is something wrong with it? If it is not the taking of an innocent life, than what's wrong with it? Why should it be rare?
Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing that abortion should be legal but rare. Why do people want it rare? They want it rare because they KNOW that it is the taking of an innocent life. And if they know that it is the taking of a life, why do they still defend it? Therefore, what you are saying, akm4, is that the health, well-being, convenience, and wishes of the mother are more important than the life of an unborn baby! Why can't we just be honest about that. An adult is of more importance to this society than an unborn child! There I said it for you. That wasn't so hard, was it?
You call those who murder unborn babies "caregivers?" Another strange use of words. Those kind, angelic, servants of society, and helpers of women everywhere, aka, "caregivers" are assisting in the murder of babies. Caregivers? To whom are they giving care? To some poor woman/girl who just got carried away in the backseat of a car and now wants to abort the consequences of her careless actions? And where is the semen planter--oh, well, we can't hold HIM responsible. She should have known better, right? Why wasn't she on the pill of something? Even if conception was the result of a rape, the child is still a child and taking its life is still murder!
Here's the wonder and joy of our great society--when abortion was a illegal, a small percentage of women and babies died in illegal abortions. That was totally unacceptable in the eyes of feminists and "caregivers" of women everywhere. So we legalized abortion to cut down the number of that SMALL percentage of women and babies dying in back-alley abortions. Things are so much better now, aren't they? Since that time, we have now murdered millions and millions and millions of babies. But, you know--women, babies, women, babies. Yeah, all is good. We lost millions of babies BUT look at all the women we have saved! My heart leaps with joy over this! NOT!
Pro-lifer are often accused: where are you when these women need help with an "unwanted" pregnancy? Answer: There are many, many pro-life groups who offer counseling and help. Question to pro-aborts: Where are YOU and those wonderful "caregivers" five, ten, fifteen years down the road when that woman who allowed a murderer to kill her unborn child is suffering post-abortion trauma?
Instead of aborting our children, this society needs to change the "reality" that you are so set on accepting without a fight. The sexual revolution still being promoted by the disgusting lifestyles and movies of Hollywood is an abject failure. Sex before marriage is harmful and wrong! Men/boys who go around society planting their seeds everywhere they go need to be held accountable for their actions. We might need to revisit the concept of shot-gun weddings! "You know, Tommy, ("pant, pant, pant") if I get pregnant, you have to marry me (pants zip, engine starts). "I'm taking you home, Susie!" Farfetched? Maybe, but maybe not!
Abortions should not be safe--society should be safe. Children should be allowed to grow up in a world that protects them from engaging in actions that are harmful to them and actions whose possible consequences they are not equipped to handle. This "everybody's doing it" and "kids are going to have sex" attitude is a cop out. It is also ironic--we create the atmosphere and the license for adolescents to engage in pre-marital sex, and then we throw up our hands, say "kids are going to have sex," toss condoms at them, and offer to get rid of the unfortunate consequence [i.e. a baby] of their actions which we knowingly paved the way for!
Realities are not set in cement. But there can be no cure for a disease that is not recognized as such. That disease is the moral decadence in this nation that has created the reality of abortion. As long as we who should know better, allow and even promote the atmosphere for careless, sexual indulgence, the reality will not change. We will continue to give pills and band-aids to cover up the moral diseases that are destroying this nation from within!
Wow. What a thing to think about. Makes me a little ill. This man was a monster. How could he call himself a christian? I'm no big time christian, but even I can see how this goes against basic morality. To hold a live baby in your hands and then just kill it?! How bout we shoot him in the knee cap and save the 3 babies?!
LOL! In my scenario, I was creating an atmosphere in which the killer of the doctor had no choice. It's not a perfect scenario. I was just trying to make a point. I like the kneecap thing, though!
Preterist
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