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Old 10-17-2009, 08:50 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 26,156,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Although, as medical tests with placebos have shown, belief is a strong thing!
Yes, but the placebo effect is just that, and has nothing to do with prayer or wish upon a star.
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
word prayers have never been answered.
including 'wishing' prayers, 'begging' prayers, 'greedy' prayers, 'revenge' prayers...................

Hello.......... there is nobody up there to answer them
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
I place you in the same camp as xians as your roots are xian in most of your posts. If you are pro faith, then that infers a culture that theoretically practices the sacrifices of virgins to an idol god is also cool?
As I said, I am for whatever gives someone bliss on a individual, extistential level, as long as it does not hurt anybody else. A sacrifice, therefore, would be against as such.

I am very consistent with that view. If it aint hurting anybody, and it makes you a happy, fulfilled person, then it is true indeed and should keep at it, regardless of how "illogical" it might be.

Quote:
Of course Africa will reflect an xian bias wrt to a poll of the indigenous folk, Africa after all was settled by missionaries much like your USA pilgrims. Having discussed beliefs with blacks I work with, their views as to religiosity is NOT xian even though that is what they say (BTW I am not racist but we are still demographically in evolution, we are referred to as whites and they are referred to as blacks, even amongst politicians - all official forms of government still ask you to state your race)
Just so you know, before I found Gnosticism, I was a Wiccan, meaning I practiced a form of Pagan polytheism and Animism. I only stopped being Wiccan because I liked Gnosticism better and Gnosticism is a better fit for me. I have never, and will never, say anything bad about the great pagan faiths, be they old, like African native religions, of new, like Wicca.

Again, if it makes them happy and fulfills their lives without hurting anyone, by all means, in the words of Joseph Campbell, "FOLLOW YOUR BLISS!"...ohh, and Just so you know, we Gnostics were wiped out by the Nicene Christians you claim me to be a member of. Our last great traditions, the Cathars, were slaughtered by Nicene Catholics hundreds of years ago Catharism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You saying I am a Nicene is like calling a Jew a Nazi.

Quote:
But back to the topic, if god is merely a construct of your own mind/human condition, who do you pray to? Yourself?
Of course. What, am I not suppose to fix my own problems? In the words of Nietzche: "If there really is a GOD, I would be quite suprised to find that I am not he." We are all are own GODs. You are your GOD and I am my GOD. Who else should I pray to to fix my problems?

But does GOD stop there? No. GOD exists and doesn't exists at the same time. It is natural and Supernatural at the same time. It is evil and good, a he a she and an it all at once.

In other words: We have about as much a chance of actually understanding GOD as one of our white blood cells has of actually understanding us. GOD is just something that we should step back from, and step inward to see, and not try to figure out...AND YES, this does mean that I am hestitate to accept a religion that claims that GOD is personal, which is why I am a Gnostic, because it treats GOD as something beyond human capability to understand.

And please, don't go on and on about "proof" and "evidence". Where is the evidence that a life based on evidence alone is some how better than one based on Faith and Emotion? That is a question no on has ever been able to answer for me.

I follow my bliss, and my bliss leads me to GOD. So, I should stop being a believer because someone on a message board tells me too, despite the happiness it gives me? Where the hell is the "logic" in that?
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Yes, but the placebo effect is just that, and has nothing to do with prayer or wish upon a star.

The placebo effect is a funny way of saying it, because there is a key word in there that always get's over looked: EFFECT

So, it would be better to have no effect at all than to have an effect that, perhaps, is the result of a placebo?
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:09 PM
 
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Two hands working will always accomplish more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Two hands working will always accomplish more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

But two hands clasped and prayer can provide more comfort then a thousand hands reaching for the Prozac (the logical, rational treatment for a bad mood which had VERY irrational side effects when I took it)
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:50 AM
 
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What many people do not understand, in my point of view, is that God could not be imaginary, since we are complex individuals with minds that have been able to create millions and millions of things that no other has ever even thought of. Where would we get the intelligence to do that? Simple evolution? But where did it all start and why? To say that an adult was once a baby, does not mean it didn't come from a mother. Which is what perplexes me about people who beleive in evolution. Just because there was a start, doesn't mean that it wasn't "started" by some intelligent force. Why is that so hard to understand?

As far as prayer is concerned, I beleive that if you are praying to God, you might as well be praying to your toilet. God in all his intelligence, will NOT answer prayers. If you want your prayer to get noticed, you should be praying to a saint or an anscestor, or an archangel. As far as I'm concerened, nobody else answers prayers. Maybe I'm wrong, but I beleive there are forces in the universe you can pray to that will get you results. But more than free help, they are like favors. You have to give something in return sooner or later. Unless they are archangels, who do God's work because they were instructed to. In the realm of good to best, angels are more important to God than people, so its important to treat them nicely. I think somewhere I read that if you want to get to God you have to talk to the angels. I imagine that's a sensible idea since when you have a problem with a product, like your t.v. , you don't automatically call the president of Sony. You usually call the help line.

I also wanted to mention, that many times a person will have the mental capacity to resolve their own problem when they have good mental focus. A lot of people do not have the ability to attract that which they desire. For some people, it is good that they pray, because they think deeply and get results because of it. It's always good to try to solve your own problems first, when they are of a personal nature, like not having money, when you know you should get a better job or a better education. That's just common sense, which some people still don't want to confront. They keep waiting for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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So you are saying that because humans can invent and build things there must be a god? Evolution should get the credit for man's inventiveness not any god...We started off as a physically weak prey species among many predators who had us on their menu...In order to survive as a species we were forced to evolve larger brains capable of building tools to survive some of this predation.

We are not the only intelligent species, but others such as whales, dolphins, elephants and some birds have little or no need to build anything, as they are much better adapted to their environment.

As far as prayer goes, it may bring some level of comfort to believers, but that's about all it does. Positive thinking in my opinion brings far better results than prayer.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
So you are saying that because humans can invent and build things there must be a god? Evolution should get the credit for man's inventiveness not any god...We started off as a physically weak prey species among many predators who had us on their menu...In order to survive as a species we were forced to evolve larger brains capable of building tools to survive some of this predation.

We are not the only intelligent species, but others such as whales, dolphins, elephants and some birds have little or no need to build anything, as they are much better adapted to their environment.

As far as prayer goes, it may bring some level of comfort to believers, but that's about all it does. Positive thinking in my opinion brings far better results than prayer.
In my opinion, God did make all creatures. And most of them are preety intelligent too. And just because we had to fight to stay alive, doesn't mean that we were supposed to get a free pass from God and have everything ready when we got here. Perhaps part of the fun is the journey. Nobody really knows why God would create us, but I beleive that when a parent gives everything to a child, the child never learns on its own. And I beleive most people like a challenge.
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Old 10-18-2009, 05:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
We started off as a physically weak prey species among many predators who had us on their menu...In order to survive as a species we were forced to evolve larger brains capable of building tools to survive some of this predation.
And...I might add, the thing that separated us from the other semi intelligent spcies was our ability to imagine. Primitive mankind was learning how to use and control his developing imagination. His ignorance and early imagination is where the gods came from...all of them.

I can think of what very early mankind's imagination might have resembled. When I was a young boy my uncles used to tell me and my cousins "ghost stories." It would terrify us and sometimes we would have bad dreams. Can you imagine what the tales from primitive mankind's dreams might have turned into?

WE know about some of them don't we...they're in the bible and the quran.

The book of mormon and the golden tabloids on the other hand came from the imagination of a fairly modern day convicted scam artist.

Last edited by Melvin.George; 10-18-2009 at 05:56 AM.. Reason: addition
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