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Seems the midwest (Ohio, Indiana, Nebraska, etc) have low rents as well as some places in Texas, Idaho. I've done quite a bit of investigating on rents, and honestly it's very difficult to find anyplace with lower rents where I would want to live, have good senior services, etc. Hard to believe that you can't find mobile home parks in Florida that would be affordable.
YOU ARE PRETTY MUCH GOING TO HAVE TO RESEARCH THIS YOURSELF. People here are not going to be able to tell you the cheapest place in the world to live, since the people with the lowest possible standard of living don't own laptops and regularly "work" the internet.
What do you think I'm doing? I'm not asking for a pat answer, I'm suggesting that respondents to this thread provide links to relevant statistical (as opposed to exclusively anecdotal) information that could help anyone make informed decisions about where in this country a person on a low fixed income can survive. Perhaps you haven't noticed that some respondents have already done exactly that. You don't have to live in the cheapest place in the world in order to know something about it. Also, you might be surprised to know that alot of people in third world countries are often quite computer savy. When I'm not on this site, I'm usually on NicaraguaLiving.com. Some of the folks I converse with are expats and some are Nicas. It only takes a guarenteed lifetime monthly income of $600 to gain retirement residency there and fortunately my Social Security benefit will clear that hurdle. But immigration means I lose out on other possible forms of assistance I may be able to get here in the U.S. No Medicaid or food stamps or SSI down there. There're alot of variables in play. I'm trying to keep my options open while I deliberate.
I was interested in no state income tax, no tax on pensions, being able to work if I wanted to, comparatively cheap cost of living, and a location where there were things to do. After all, if you die of boredom, who cares whether or not you did it cheaply? I didn't want to spend the rest of my life sitting on the front porch. I lived a lot of my life in rural places and while they had their advantages, I didn't want that in retirement. I wanted to live in a city. And after 15 years in Minneapolis, a city without much of a winter.
I picked Las Vegas and so far, I love it. The only thing that isn't reasonable is electricity. I didn't budget properly for that bill and it's a big one. AC is something you can't do without here in the summer. I am looking into some alternatives like partial solar or investing in the electric utility. I've heard of at least one individual who pays his bill every month on the dividends from that investment. I thought that was at least worth checking out. I bet that could be done in other areas too. I am also planning to do some insulating and buy better windows and doors. Probably the cheapest way to live in Vegas would be one of the rent by the week or month places that include all utilities, phone, and internet. This runs about $800 per month for a studio apt that's about 700sf. You can even get one of these that includes some of your food.
There's lots to be said about Las Vegas for retirement. I love the easy availability of goods and services. You can get almost anything here. I can go out for prime rib or steak any night and spend less than $5 per person. I can go to a $6 buffet and eat my day worth of food. I didn't have to buy it, prepare it, or clean up the mess. Lots of places are open 7x24 too. Except for about 8 weeks of too hot, the weather is pretty ideal. I'll take that any day over 6 months of snow and ice. Vegas is actually a small city and it's easy to get anywhere you want to go.
Las Vegas has poor healthcare and availability of medical services. I'm a young, healthy retiree but I know that will change in time. I chose to just accept this because healthcare in the whole country is in flux and it's all going to be changing over the next few years. I don't even pretend to be able to predict what will end up happening but seems to me we are all going to get the same poor healthcare anyway. I'm probably better off living in a place where I can be happy and active year round.
I like it that I CAN legally work. That's one of the issues that kept me from seriously considering Central America or foreign country retirement. If I want to buy something frivolous I didn't budget for, I can get a job. I do work now, usually 30 something hours a week at a place where the wages are very low but the discounts are greatly helping me afford to remodel my home with high quality materials. Right now it's working out well and I made a good decision to work part time. Also I do part time writing. Just SEO piecework that can be done from anywhere. Even Costa Rica. But believe me, it's not a job where you will make any appreciable amount of money. Just a few bucks here and there.
If I need a lot of medical/dental work, my plan is to go to another country. Most likely, Mexico.
One piece of the retirement puzzle, but probably not the most important one, is taxation. At www.kiplinger.com there is a tax map for retirees which summarizes each state's tax situation. A few states have no income tax, a few others have no sales tax, some give state income tax breaks to retirees and some do not. It is a complex situation. For example California, a high-tax state, does not tax Social Security benefits, but the sales tax and state income tax on other income is rather high. For those whose income is low, i.e., those for whom this thread is intended, state income tax is probably more or less irrelevant, whereas lack of sales tax may be more important because even the lowest income people spend money on various goods and services.
I think it is generally agreed that rents are lower in smaller towns as compared to cities. Poster Jtur88 lives in Victoria, Texas and pays something like $480 per month rent for a clean, safe apartment (one-bedroom, I think). Perhaps he will post here and correct me if my memory is a little off. When I first read this (his rental amount) I just couldn't believe it, being used as I am to rents in the Los Angeles area. So, as the OP implies, location is everything.
Also, if you are looking to buy in what you think is a cheaper (less exp) area, consider this:
Property taxes are one thing.
Condo fees on top of property taxes is like paying property taxes x 2.
Some areas have lower property taxes compared with other areas, but the water cost, sewer cost, water tax, and sewer tax are all separate expenses and can be so much higher as to cancel out the good effects of lower property tax. I found that out by actually calling the town offices of the places I'm interested in.
Some states have hidden costs.
Make a list of ALL living costs on an Excel spreadsheet and list them for the places you are looking at. You should also list as an itemized expense the cost annually to travel back from wherever you are to see family. Figure in airfare, shuttle fare, hotel, eating out, etc. when you make these visits.
Also in your new area, the estimated $ of what it costs to drive how far to the doctor, grocery, entertainment of any sort. This is one of the true hidden costs that we often fail to calculate.
Point taken. There's just so much of it, it's overwhelming. It will take a while but instead of wading knee-deep in the big muddy I am trying to learn the monikers of the most articulate and informed members and follow their posts.
"Land of Entrapment" - I thought I'd made that up. I lived in Albuquerque from '78 to '91. It was a boomin' town back then. Recently I got so sick of the economic situation here in the "Sunburn State" that I went back to New Mexico. I was stunned. It wasn't the same place. The computer and electronics companies are all gone. (I met a guy sweeping the street who used to work at Intel.) You walk down Central Ave. and see all these once-attractive buildings abandoned, fenced-off and burnt-out. The streets are teeming with homeless people. Body-piercing/tatoo shops now seem to be the major industry. I went because the unemployment rate is half of what it is here but then I realized that's because of the Air Force bases, think tanks and weapons labs. Had to give up and return to the Land of Foreclosed Dreams - Florida. My aspiration is to retire to the North. Somewhere idyllic, like Flint, MI or Buffalo, NY.
SG, it would help us if we could know what your personal needs are.
Where do you live now and where are you willing to go?
Do you have family you want to visit each year? Aging parents or kids?
Do you have pets?
Do you want regular rent or subsidized senior housing?
Do you want public transport only or do you have a car? A car is the biggest cost after housing, health costs, and food.
After all, if you die of boredom, who cares whether or not you did it cheaply?
In the future I'm anticpating boredom will never be a problem. In fact, I think we will probably long for the days when it was possible to be bored. I loved living in New Mexico but I'm glad I did it when I did (1980's). The problem is that the SouthWest has a very large Black Swan heading its way, i.e. water (as in lack of). The aquifers are being mined much faster than they can be recharged. The snowpack on the Rockies will shrink as global warming accelerates. Colorado will no longer be able to carry the entire SouthWest and will turn off the tap. This will happen in our lifetimes. Ed Abbey said it best, "These cities that were built where no cities belong will eventually go back to sand." (And that was before anybody knew anything about global warming.)
Thank you for your input. I appreciate all POVs. I'm trying to reconcile a whole lot of detailed information while not losing sight of the big picture.
Hope I'm not bumming you out.
Last edited by SelflessGene; 10-04-2010 at 02:55 PM..
Reason: punctuation
In the future I'm anticpating boredom will never be a problem. In fact, I think we will probably long for the days when it was possible to be bored. I loved living in New Mexico but I'm glad I did it when I did (1980's). The problem is that the SouthWest has a very large Black Swan heading its way, i.e. water (as in lack of). The aquifers are being mined much faster than they can be recharged. The snowpack on the Rockies will shrink as global warming accelerates. Colorado will no longer be able to carry the entire SouthWest and will turn off the tap. This will happen in our lifetimes. Ed Abbey said it best, "These cities that were built where no cities belong will eventually go back to sand." (And that was before anybody knew anything about global warming.)
Thank you for your input. I appreciate all POVs. I'm trying to reconcile a whole lot of detailed information while not losing sight of the big picture.
Hope I'm not bumming you out.
Not at all. I was thinking I will be dead anyway before that becomes a real issue. Or so old I won't really care.
SG, it would help us if we could know what your personal needs are.
Where do you live now and where are you willing to go?
Do you have family you want to visit each year? Aging parents or kids?
Do you have pets?
Do you want regular rent or subsidized senior housing?
Do you want public transport only or do you have a car? A car is the biggest cost after housing, health costs, and food.
Would you live in a cabin in the backwoods?
Give us your list.
You are the forgiving type. I didn't think we'd ever be talking again. Thanks for your concern but I hope you won't be offended if I say that I'm not looking for someone to hold my hand. (I may be new to this site but I wasn't born yesterday. I think I'm probably older than you are.) My intention in starting this thread was not to solicit a whole lot of (usually anecdotal and personal) advice but to hunt down sources of information that I can compile into a rating system for retirees on a Really Low Fixed Income. When you folks start talking about condos and property taxes and the price of steak buffets you lose me. I'm not in that league. To show you what I mean I'll answer your questions.
1. Right now I'm living in my parents house because I have absolutely no cash income. The unemployment rate in this area, my age, my credit rating (due to credit card debt, a civil judgement against me and a defaulted student loan that entitles the Feds to seize all but $750
of my Social Security benefit until the day I die), my less than stellar work history and the irrelevance of my skill set to current market demand all conspire to make me virtually unemployable. If I wasn't getting $200 in food stamps each month I would definitely have overstayed my welcome here and would be homeless. "Here" is Bradenton, FL and I am willing to go anywhere in the entire world as long as there's no war going on there. I've spent alot of time checking out Nicaragua since I can meet their $600/mo. guaranteed lifetime income requirement for a permanent resident visa. But I haven't given up on the U.S. yet since there is definitely no "safety net" south of the border.
2. Once I'm gone, I'm gone forever.
3. No pets - they cost money and limit your options.
4. Regular rent or subsidized senior housing? Researching that, you bet.
5. Hate cars. Lived most of my life without them. So I'm looking for somewhere with adequate public transportation - obviously an urban area.
6. A cabin in the backwoods? Been there, done that, and it's a surprisingly expensive proposition.
Sounds pretty bleak, doesn't it. Not to worry. Never encountered a situation I couldn't overcome one way or another. My POV is from about 400 light years away. I'm convinced that, like W.S. said, it really is all "sound and fury, signifying nothing." That puts things in perspective. And at least I've managed to stay out of the wars and do no harm.
Last edited by SelflessGene; 10-04-2010 at 04:54 PM..
Reason: Why? Because we like you!
Have you contacted Florida Elder Affairs, they did a wonderful job for my mother. email them and they will get back to you
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Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Part 1
I was going to mention....
