Alienation at retirement (70+, moving, crying, autism)

[fluffythewondercat]

Originally Posted by CityCurl

I am now convinced that he has some disorder. he does not seem to know what a marriage is or how a husband behaves with his wife. he acts like a 13 year old boy about chores around the house and as if i am his enemy. he is a hoarder and will bring back stuff i have discarded, and hide them in his room, his office which is always a mess. he has no friends although he tries very hard to keep in touch with people he has known. he is jealous of my closeness to our kids, my friends, my activities. he talks very loudly and long, often going on about politics but in a narrow way, repeating whatever they say on MSNBC, news that i already know. his idea of conversation is to ask a lot of questions but not wait for the answer before he asks another one. he is very anxious to have tight control over everything, giving me a hundred instructions about every single thing like driving to some place. it is painful to drive with him in the car. all these behaviors were always there but they intensifying now.

So your husband has always been a packrat, has always been anxious and controlling to some degree?

What was his relationship with his mother like? Was she overbearing? What about his father?

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by CityCurl

..
My husband retired 3 years ago and he is 77. We have been married for 47 years. ...


is there any hope for happiness in this marriage? am i being ungrateful for what we do have and complaining about petty things? short of divorce is there a solution?

Kinda 'new' at this retirement thing, and working till 74 might have been an escape for him (still learning to transition to retirement)

There is EXCELLENT hope for your relationship and marriage, be careful to not 'give-up' / go negative. It could be a simple transition, or he may have health needs / social needs...reason to live...

There are EXCELLENT counselors, find referrals, IT WORKS (and it is WORK).

Alternatively, find close friends that are willing to sit you down, listen and call the shots! I find friends know you, know your changes and challenges and can be very insightful and helpful MUCH faster that establishing a counselor (who sees another client next hour). There are some great resources for you at community mental health / Universities / Theological schools.

I would play it like a game that I was not willing to lose (Relationship). You mention kids / assets /... don't go there at all if possible. BUT don't wallow in your fears / disgust. Turn over a new leaf / purpose to be the BEST for each other, and enjoy the journey (this is just a new chapter and could end very well! (and very soon...). I think you can pull this off and enjoy it, and he can be a new / renewed person. (only with your help and support) I have seen too many old guys fall off the merry-go-round at this age. Don't encourage that result. (You will not be happy with you (or him)).

[Lodestar]

Welcome to CD, City Curl.

Have you ever heard of people who spend their whole lives saving the little pieces of tin foil off of chewing gum wrappers and adding them to a continuously growing ball of foil? Or the two different men, one in NE and the other in MN, who spent their lives collecting pieces of twine and creating the world's largest ball of twine? (Both balls qualify as one is the heaviest and the other is the biggest around. True!)

I was curious and went to visit the one in MN. While there and pondering the mysteries of the human spirit I heard someone say, "Why would anyone do something like that?" And I found myself wondering what it was that he may have been keeping himself from doing if he didn't do it.

Maybe retirement is a little like that for some people - they are faced with what they wouldn't do if they were working.

You can take that with the grain of salt it was written with.

You have my support for any constructive steps you take to solve your problem and I certainly sympathize. These long-term marriages take many twists and turns over the years and the best of us can get tired out along the way.

Perhaps the reading suggestion is a good place to start.

[Native ny]

My heart goes out to OP, hugs. For whatever reason all of these years you have ignored your happiness, but that does not help you now. You just have to know it will take a lot of work to fix. My sense is there is a medical, psychological side and professional help is needed. Where to start? By taking care of you first! Seek some counseling so that you get the guidance and support you need to deal with and sort out next steps. If there is illness, there can be healing..... But all you can do is start with your well being.

[aliceacrasperfolk]

I suggest you try to find something good about him and think of that when he is being himself. I understand about future caregiver and not willing to do it. My long term boyfriend almost lost me when he didn't take care of me when I needed him. I am a strong women so haven't needed him much but a broken leg and he wouldn't bring me a cup of coffee because he was mad at me for saying no when he offered and I wasn't up yet. Then I had a problem out Christmas shopping with him and he left me down town alone and went to the truck when I had low blood sugar and afraid of passing out. I had to drive home that way because it was safer then him driving, I had told him I was hungry because I couldn't explain low blood sugar and he said I should have eaten earlier. I waited two weeks thinking of dumping him if I couldn't count on him. After a couple of weeks he figured out something was wrong and asked me. He really didn't understand until he got the flu and I brought him tea and soup, when he started to feel better he said if I got it he would take care of me. Now we are both retired but live in separate home. I know if I need him he would do anything for me but we needed to talk about obligations and expectations.
You may be able to simply talk to your husband when he is calm and ready, tell him the two of you need to talk about your retirement plans and schedule a time to sit quietly or go for a walk or go fishing and have a conversation. Explain now that you are both retired you need to renegotiate who does which chores and the standards for your home and vacations. Explain you like to listen to music when you travel and not talk about politics. Tell him he can keep things in his office but the floor must be empty, he can stack things in the closet but nothing that smells funny and only a closet full not clutter. Ask what he would do if you got cancer and needed someone to do the cooking and cleaning entirely. Ask him if he thinks it is fair when you are both retired if you do all the inside chores and he does the outside or should you switch each week or month. If he is a fair person he will see the problem and propose a solution. If not you might want a second home or cabin and switch which is on vacation or give him a man cave if you can so he doesn't make messes at your home. Take it slow this isn't an emergency.

[CityCurl]

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

So your husband has always been a packrat, has always been anxious and controlling to some degree?

What was his relationship with his mother like? Was she overbearing? What about his father?

His father dominated everybody. he had 4 brothers and a sister and he is the last but one. The boys all went to boarding school and he tells me he was either 6 or 8 when he went. His father did not think his wife could handle them since he was on the road a lot. He was very, very close to his mother, empathized with her and helped her with everything at home. She was quite affectionate. I think he wants a mom more than a wife. But aren't a lot of men like that?
All the brothers were attached to mom. but he sort of feared his dad even as adult. his older brothers were beaten up if they did not do their physical fitness routines but he says he never got beaten himself. But i know other men who are unable to stand up to their dad's unreasonable demands, so i don't know where to go with that. His sister was the princess, she got whatever she wanted.

he is quite aware of his problems, short temper, hoarding (he calls it organizing), his bad memory.

[CityCurl]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

Kinda 'new' at this retirement thing, and working till 74 might have been an escape for him (still learning to transition to retirement)

There is EXCELLENT hope for your relationship and marriage, be careful to not 'give-up' / go negative. It could be a simple transition, or he may have health needs / social needs...reason to live...

There are EXCELLENT counselors, find referrals, IT WORKS (and it is WORK).

Alternatively, find close friends that are willing to sit you down, listen and call the shots! I find friends know you, know your changes and challenges and can be very insightful and helpful MUCH faster that establishing a counselor (who sees another client next hour). There are some great resources for you at community mental health / Universities / Theological schools.

I would play it like a game that I was not willing to lose (Relationship). You mention kids / assets /... don't go there at all if possible. BUT don't wallow in your fears / disgust. Turn over a new leaf / purpose to be the BEST for each other, and enjoy the journey (this is just a new chapter and could end very well! (and very soon...). I think you can pull this off and enjoy it, and he can be a new / renewed person. (only with your help and support) I have seen too many old guys fall off the merry-go-round at this age. Don't encourage that result. (You will not be happy with you (or him)).

Thank you, and thank you all of you for your supportive words. It is helping me a lot to see him as someone who needs help rather than an evil person who is just full of hate for me. I have been trying so hard to not descend into hate back - introspection, prayers, positive psych, thinking, thinking, and now just feel defeated. I too think we can, and should, have a happier life.

Neither of us trust therapists, him more than me. Before we go that route I like your idea talking to a friend. He has one he trusts a lot (upto a point. it is difficult for him to trust people.) and for whom he has a lot of affection. Are you saying we should all 3 sit and talk about it? I am thinking if I should talk to his friend, C, and ask him to talk to him. He has another close friend, J, who had a melt down, bipolar. His friends intervened and now he is on medication and much better. He could talk to to him as well.

But I am a bit nervous about medication, he is already on a few things. He too distrusts medications for mood disorders. Talking with friends might be the best. He loves to talk, and that is the problem because he does not listen.

[CityCurl]

alicecasperfolk, thank you for your note. It helps me a lot to see others with same difficulties and how they resolved them.
Yes, we have had all that talk. he nods his head, he is all for it, but it does not last. His personality issues take over. And yes he too will only help the way he wants to not what i want, and sees it as rejection and gets mad.

I suggest you try to find something good about him and think of that when he is being himself. Take it slow this isn't an emergency.

Yes. I will try, i have always been trying. I feel exhausted with all the trying and it only gets worse.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by CityCurl

... It is helping me a lot to see him as someone who needs help rather than an evil person who is just full of hate for me. ... talking to a friend. He has one he trusts a lot (upto a point. it is difficult for him to trust people.) and for whom he has a lot of affection. Are you saying we should all 3 sit and talk about it? I am thinking if I should talk to his friend, C, and ask him to talk to him.

... He too distrusts medications for mood disorders. Talking with friends might be the best. He loves to talk, and that is the problem because he does not listen.

I would purposely avoid talking to friend privately / giving friends (or anyone else including a pastor / counselor) too much info. Both might become skeptical of you. Ezr for them to stay objective w/o your 'influence' / anger / confusion / love / passion / exasperation! (BTDT as a 32 yr caregiver for disabled parent (bipolar among other 'stuff'))

Best to always be together (3 of you) and gently lead into discussion (maybe through an example of bipolar friend (or other) / that type of 'inferred' conversation). Act wisely and respectful of each (friend and DH). NEVER undermine trust, never jump to YOUR conclusion. Dr should always do the drugs and you should meet together as well if possible. (No as a nanny, but to help 'remember' reactions / episodes of drugs / results. behavior changes +/-.) Always ask Dr. LOTS of questions but do NOT be manipulative. Be very short and direct.

Keep him in contact with friends and keep him walking / swimming / gardening / some form of physical activity A LOT. (better / statistically equivalent to drugs for most people with behavior stressors. )

some ideas / questions to think over:

1. What are his favorite things?
2. What brings him peace (now or earlier in life)?
3. Does he like the outdoors? (National parks / scenery / picnics / drives)
4. What does he do to rest / relax?
5. What do you appreciate about him? (Today or in yrs past)
6. Has he tended to be a complainer? (has he ever been content? I struggle with that, tho am adequately provided for in spite of myself)
7. What would he miss most (today) about you being gone? (via illness / death / separation (not divorce)) (Do not bring this up to him / threaten him, just silently prepare him for your absence (via your health / death / separation (not divorce)) He will be stronger for it and respect / appreciate your efforts!

[Giesela]

Originally Posted by CityCurl

N

i am afraid one of these days he is going to be sick and i will have to take care of a man who does not love me and i don't love.
i feel guilty to feel this way. our children will be sad, they love both of us and feel sorrier for dad. they think i am stronger. i am not but i have to be the sane person in this marriage and i am tired and feel i do not have an equal partner. it is a daily conflict, any word can become a shouting match. so we try not to talk to each other and only time we do it sounds so rude i feel so unhappy communicating this way.

is there any hope for happiness in this marriage? am i being ungrateful for what we do have and complaining about petty things? short of divorce is there a solution?

I think the getting sick thing has already happened. Your body changes as you age, including the brain. In some people this changes the personality. It could be dementia or just plain old ageing. Chances are its just going to get harder. I suspect talk therapy can't deal with this.

You could discuss it with your kids. I will never understand why people go on and on about how family is the most important thing, the ONE thing, and then when it gets hard, Oh well, I don't want to bother them, or they don't want to help. What's if for then? Why go to friends? Not that its not an option but...
Talk to your kids. Tell them that you can't go through this alone. That they need to either come stay with him (for a few days or week at a time) while you take a break somewhere and generally help you quite a bit deal with this. Or if you have the funds put him in assisted living. At the very least get their help to get him put on some meds to tone down the anger. You shouldn't have to deal with this alone. Isn't this why people have family?
Don't be coy either. If its gotten to the point where you would consider divorce (and I think that's perfectly fine) they'll be the ones picking up the slack anyway and they need to know that.