These stories also don't make sense to me. Let me tell you about my experience with incompetent elderly parents.
I convinced my parents to move close to me due to (1) red flags – father getting lost driving to familiar places, mother's confusion over medical bill, and (2) my only sibling and I lived far away, and there was no family left near my parents who were willing to help them.
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Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah
I personally knew both of these couples, both before and after the move. They were all sharp, and in reasonably good health before the move.
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That's exactly what friends and extended family said about my parents. They were wrong! In fact, I didn't even know how bad they were until they were here for about six months and I saw them every other day. Before they moved, they were very good at covering up their deficits during my weekend visits. They were certainly adept at covering up their deficits during brief visits with friends and extended family. In fact, I had a hard time convincing their doctors about their true condition. None of their many doctors believed me until they reached the point where they were "losing it" during their doctor visits.
Even then, one of my mother's doctors wouldn't get involved in declaring her incompetent when I was desperately trying to get them to move to a facility with services. This was her cardiologist. She had had a stent procedure and was there for a follow-up appointment. He came in the room, and she ripped off her top, exposing her breasts, and started yelling at him that he was responsible for her flabby arms. She acted like a lunatic. He refused to get involved.
I finally convinced them to move to an independent living facility where they would get three meals a day, housekeeping services, activities, and transportation to stores, doctor visits if I wasn't able to go, etc. There was no way that they would agree to assisted living, so at that time this was my only hope to get them into a safe place. They simply were not capable of living on their own any longer.
Here's the rub: They had to be interviewed by the facility before the facility accepted them. Now, my father had been having paranoid delusions and hallucinations, and I knew that they would never be accepted if that came to light. They both managed to hold it together for the interview and got accepted. Their primary care physicians were required to submit a form essentially saying that they were suitable for independent living.
Now, my experience with the question of having them legally declared incompetent:
My sister was on a mission to get one or both of them declared legally incompetent, not for financial reasons, simply because she is a control freak. Her first attempt was before they moved into the independent living facility. She flew down for a visit and made an appointment with the attorney who drew up their POAs, healthcare POAs, wills, etc. She wanted me to accompany her and pay half the cost of the consultation. I refused, because I knew exactly what the attorney was going to tell her: that it was a losing proposition since they had all of the documents in place for us to handle their affairs. And I was right.
However, there came a point in time when they really needed to be in assisted living. By this time they were having shared paranoid delusions and being disruptive in the independent living section of the facility. My father adamantly refused to consider moving into assisted living.
My sister came up with a scheme to force them into assisted living. She wanted me to arrange for a room in the assisted living section of the facility, and her plan was to take them out for a day trip, and have me get all of their furniture and belongings moved into the assisted living room, and then she would take them back to the facility and say, "This is where you live now."
I was absolutely opposed to that. I knew that it would be a disaster, and I was pretty ticked off at her for even thinking that this would be okay, because she would fly home and I would be left with the fallout.
However, we never even got close to doing that because the facility was opposed to it. No way were
they going to deal with the fallout from this scheme.
But things got worse. Their shared paranoid delusions became worse, and my mother was having violent outbursts. My father was in complete denial. Something had to be done. I was at my wit's end. My sister then pushed to get my mother declared legally incompetent, and I was so desperate that I agreed to consult a different attorney about it.
We met with the attorney, who told us that even under the circumstances, there was no guarantee that we would prevail. And it certainly couldn't be done without my mother's knowledge. She would be appointed an attorney and would have to appear in court. I really appreciated that attorney's candor. She could have easily taken our money and started the proceedings, but instead she said, "So what happens if your mother or father, or both, are declared incompetent? That won't magically make them cooperative. You'll still have to deal with the underlying issues, and dragging your mother to court could make it worse."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah
Is it possible for a doctor to "test" a patient for competency, without telling the patient?
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The only way a person can be tested for competency and not know it is if they really
are incompetent. The doctor will perform a mini-mental state exam (MMSE) or, in some cases, a full MMSE, and a mood assessment. My mother flunked the mini-MMSE which was given to her at my request not long after she moved near me, yet the doctor wouldn't declare her incompetent. After her outburst at the cardiologist's office, I took her back to her primary care physician who administered a full MMSE, and my mother refused to cooperate halfway through because she was so frustrated. It was at that time that her primary care physician declared her incompetent. However, in my state, one doctor putting that in her medical record has no legal significance.
So I find it hard to believe that these types of things can be done behind the elders' backs and without their knowledge unless they really are incompetent and it is necessary.
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