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This is horribly scary! How can we protect ourselves from this happening in our older years?
I have more to tell. Later.
A few things.
I live in suburb of Syracuse, NY and when I turned a "certain" age (can't recall... maybe 65?), when I had a yearly physical, I had to do a little test for the nurse which according to her would indicate how my mental capacity was. It involved repeating words, remembering items on a tray, etc. Thankfully, I passed and that was that.
I wonder if some of the things being discussed here (true.... not true.... don't know etc.) depend on what state we live in as to what determines our mental capacity and how others can make important decisions for us.
Health proxy.... would that help in these cases?
Now, for something I did about ten years ago. I have a sister who is nine years older than me. She has had cerebral palsy since birth. But a milder case as she had no problem walking, her speech was difficult, went to a school for handicapped kids, etc. She had friends, went partying as did some of the other school kids. She held a few jobs, mainly live-in domestic (babysitting, cooking, cleaning). Eventually she went on public assistance (Dad had gone by then, Mom on public assistance--don't think Dad had a retirement). She had her own apartment. Met a guy, got pregnant, had a little girl. Continued to drink (and smoke) and sadly not a great Mom. (Before somebody thinks about why I didn't get involved, if you have a couple of hours, I'll be glad to explain it to you). So the years went by, her daughter grew up and got married. Had her own daughter. By now sister is maybe in early 70s. Her ability to take care of herself was greatly diminishing. Her mind was not what it once was. I had several discussions with her daughter. Finally, through the Dept. of the Aging, a nurse came to sister's apartment and did an evaluation. I don't recall how that all worked out, but sister was still allowed to stay independent. Then, when things were becoming more difficult (both my niece and I had full time jobs), sister was becoming physically ill, we took her to the doctor. I told the doctor we weren't leaving till the doctor put her in a hospital. X-rays showed pneumonia so doctor did admit her to a hospital. Sister was more talented than Houdini...... she could untie every knot, etc. and get out of her bed and wander into the streets. I'm talking in the middle of traffic.
I realize this is a lot of rambling, but it's a true story. When sister was in hospital (long after pneumonia had cleared) I spoke with the nursing home administrator. She was admitted very soon after that.
She hated it. Screamed at me for probably first few months when I visited her. Kept saying I want to go home, I want to go home....... but her home was no longer her home. Has blamed me ever since. I "did" it to her.
I don't know if any of the above helps explain at least in part how those people ended up where they did. I did not have power of attorney. I wasn't a health proxy. But I was able to have her admitted.
I don't see how a doctor can test a patient without their knowledge and HIPPA laws would prevent the doctor from discussing the patient with their children without the elder person's consent. Too many holes in this story.
This. Even if the man was dropped off without his consent, why would he have to remain there? If he is not deemed incompetent, why would they be able to do this?
Something doesn't add up with the above stories. I have been a Family Physician practicing since 1987 and have been involved in cases where people REALLY needed to be in a nursing home and the hoops the family (and I) had to jump through were numerous. I find it hard to believe a mentally competent person would wind up in a nursing home against their wishes. And YES, be very careful who you assign as your power of attorney!!!
I agree the OP is only getting one side of the story.
It is impossible to get mentally competent adults forced into a nursing home against their will.
The dad dropped off at a nursing home and daughter never came back? That is a stupid urban legend. You don't 'know' of anyone that happened to. You heard it.
I live in suburb of Syracuse, NY and when I turned a "certain" age (can't recall... maybe 65?), when I had a yearly physical, I had to do a little test for the nurse which according to her would indicate how my mental capacity was. It involved repeating words, remembering items on a tray, etc. Thankfully, I passed and that was that.
I wonder if some of the things being discussed here (true.... not true.... don't know etc.) depend on what state we live in as to what determines our mental capacity and how others can make important decisions for us.
Health proxy.... would that help in these cases?
Now, for something I did about ten years ago. I have a sister who is nine years older than me. She has had cerebral palsy since birth. But a milder case as she had no problem walking, her speech was difficult, went to a school for handicapped kids, etc. She had friends, went partying as did some of the other school kids. She held a few jobs, mainly live-in domestic (babysitting, cooking, cleaning). Eventually she went on public assistance (Dad had gone by then, Mom on public assistance--don't think Dad had a retirement). She had her own apartment. Met a guy, got pregnant, had a little girl. Continued to drink (and smoke) and sadly not a great Mom. (Before somebody thinks about why I didn't get involved, if you have a couple of hours, I'll be glad to explain it to you). So the years went by, her daughter grew up and got married. Had her own daughter. By now sister is maybe in early 70s. Her ability to take care of herself was greatly diminishing. Her mind was not what it once was. I had several discussions with her daughter. Finally, through the Dept. of the Aging, a nurse came to sister's apartment and did an evaluation. I don't recall how that all worked out, but sister was still allowed to stay independent. Then, when things were becoming more difficult (both my niece and I had full time jobs), sister was becoming physically ill, we took her to the doctor. I told the doctor we weren't leaving till the doctor put her in a hospital. X-rays showed pneumonia so doctor did admit her to a hospital. Sister was more talented than Houdini...... she could untie every knot, etc. and get out of her bed and wander into the streets. I'm talking in the middle of traffic.
I realize this is a lot of rambling, but it's a true story. When sister was in hospital (long after pneumonia had cleared) I spoke with the nursing home administrator. She was admitted very soon after that.
She hated it. Screamed at me for probably first few months when I visited her. Kept saying I want to go home, I want to go home....... but her home was no longer her home. Has blamed me ever since. I "did" it to her.
I don't know if any of the above helps explain at least in part how those people ended up where they did. I did not have power of attorney. I wasn't a health proxy. But I was able to have her admitted.
That sounds like part of your "welcome to Medicare' exam.
DHS got involved in your sister's case and someone signed off on her not being competent
I think it is best that we educate ourselves about our rights and how to protect them. Vulnerable or not, seniors are perceived as such to fraud and scaremongering. I fell this original post belong to that category, along with free dinners where attorneys lay it all out for you. Beware of such scarey stories and ask a lot of questions, where, to whom, why, what, when.
In the mean time draw up all your legal papers and keep them safe.
I don't see how a doctor can test a patient without their knowledge and HIPPA laws would prevent the doctor from discussing the patient with their children without the elder person's consent. Too many holes in this story.
Anyone questioning an elder's competency would have to go to court with evidence to prove it and gain legal guardianship.
I would imagine but do not know for sure that the elder can represent herself/himself in court.
Seems like it would make the good subject for the theater...
The doors to nursing homes and assisted living are not locked unless you are in the Alzheimer's/memory care unit. So why didn't the fellow who was "dropped off" just walk out the front door, or call a friend and ask to be picked up? OP if these people were your friends before and after these events, why didn't they get an attorney to reverse this "guardianship"? When you spoke to them after this stuff happened did you urge them to seek help from the local Agency on Aging, or call Gatekeepers or some other elder abuse hotline?
A few years ago in a very respected newspaper (can't remember which one but one of the big ones like Washington Post, NY Times, LA Times) about horror stories of conservatorships by what appeared to be random strangers who took over elderly assets and drained them dry so what these children mentioned by the OP could be doing is similar to the article. So while some say this can't happen, I was astounded to read what "professional conservators" can do to elderly people not related to them, so it's quite possible kids can even easier do the same thing to their parents.
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