San Antonio code regarding max number of people in a house? (apartment, rental)

[Sally_Sparrow]

I am researching for a friend;

I have looked, but I wasn't able to find the relevant portion of the SA Municipal Code that addresses the issue of the maximum number of occupants for a privately owned house.

In this particular instance, it is not a rental or anything like that. It is a single family home, owned outright by my friend, four bedrooms and about 1300 square feet.

She was recently told by a code compliance officer that she had "too many" people living in her home. She has a large family, and on top of that, has allowed a homeless couple to stay at her place out of the kindness of her heart (they are sleeping in her living room)... ten people total (2 in each bedroom plus 2 in the living room).

She was shocked and the guy did not tell her how many was "too many" and I told her I would try and find out exactly what the rules are. She has owned her home for years and even without the houseguests, has always had a full house as a married woman with six children. If anyone knows, I would appreciate the info.

[just the tip baby]

Originally Posted by sabride

I am researching for a friend;

I have looked, but I wasn't able to find the relevant portion of the SA Municipal Code that addresses the issue of the maximum number of occupants for a privately owned house.

In this particular instance, it is not a rental or anything like that. It is a single family home, owned outright by my friend, four bedrooms and about 1300 square feet.

She was recently told by a code compliance officer that she had "too many" people living in her home. She has a large family, and on top of that, has allowed a homeless couple to stay at her place out of the kindness of her heart (they are sleeping in her living room)... ten people total (2 in each bedroom plus 2 in the living room).

She was shocked and the guy did not tell her how many was "too many" and I told her I would try and find out exactly what the rules are. She has owned her home for years and even without the houseguests, has always had a full house as a married woman with six children. If anyone knows, I would appreciate the info.

Wow.

That is an embarrassment.

10 people in a 1300 sq ft house?

Let me guess...

they also park their cars on their front lawn.

Damn, that is sad.

[Hedgehog_Mom]

Looking at city code http://www.sanantonio.gov/dsd/pdf/ne...ntcode2001.pdf (page 11)

it says that there needs to be 60 sq ft per occupant of each bedroom (so if there are two people sharing a bedroom it should be at least 120 sq ft), the living room should be at least 150 sq ft, dining room 100 sq ft and kitchen 60 sq ft.

But according to this one which will be effective January 1, 2012, http://www.sanantonio.gov/ces/PDF/SA...Web_Secure.pdf (section 404.5) it says "The number of persons occupying a dwelling unit shall not create conditions that, in the opinion of the code official, endanger the life, health, safety or welfare of the occupants."

So basically if the code compliance officer decides that it's too crowded, then it is, effective January 1, 2012.

It sounds like the real issue is the couple staying in the living room, because without them there are two people to each bedroom.

[Sally_Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom

Looking at city code http://www.sanantonio.gov/dsd/pdf/ne...ntcode2001.pdf (page 11)

it says that there needs to be 60 sq ft per occupant of each bedroom (so if there are two people sharing a bedroom it should be at least 120 sq ft), the living room should be at least 150 sq ft, dining room 100 sq ft and kitchen 60 sq ft.

But according to this one which will be effective January 1, 2012, http://www.sanantonio.gov/ces/PDF/SA...Web_Secure.pdf (section 404.5) it says "The number of persons occupying a dwelling unit shall not create conditions that, in the opinion of the code official, endanger the life, health, safety or welfare of the occupants."

So basically if the code compliance officer decides that it's too crowded, then it is, effective January 1, 2012.

It sounds like the real issue is the couple staying in the living room, because without them there are two people to each bedroom.

thanks. I am not sure why I couldn't find that, I must be having a blonde day! I will pass the info on to her. The couple in the living room is just a temporary thing.

[DexterCat]

the general rule of thumb, ive learned, is about 2 per bedroom, not counting the living room.

what youre describing sounds like it indeed is creating an unsafe environment. 10 people in 1300 sqft? thats 130 sqft per person, counting bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen, etc etc.

why would your friend(s) want to subject themselves to that??

[Sally_Sparrow]

Originally Posted by just the tip baby

Wow.

That is an embarrassment.

10 people in a 1300 sq ft house?

Let me guess...

they also park their cars on their front lawn.

Damn, that is sad.

No, actually, they park their cars in the driveway.

What's sad is this sort of judgmental commentary on people who actually live within their means, and then attempted to be charitable to a couple of people who were on the streets with nowhere else to go.

[DexterCat]

Originally Posted by sabride

No, actually, they park their cars in the driveway.

What's sad is this sort of judgmental commentary on people who actually live within their means, and then attempted to be charitable to a couple of people who were on the streets with nowhere else to go.

while helping people out is a noble cause, subjecting themselves to sub-standard living conditions is indeed sad and a health risk. that many people clumped together creates a lot of health risks. not just viral, but physical as well.

/i have 1100 sqft and thats barely enough for my wife, myself and my 2 cats!

[Sally_Sparrow]

Originally Posted by DexterCat

the general rule of thumb, ive learned, is about 2 per bedroom, not counting the living room.

what youre describing sounds like it indeed is creating an unsafe environment. 10 people in 1300 sqft? thats 130 sqft per person, counting bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen, etc etc.

why would your friend(s) want to subject themselves to that??

I wouldn't do it because I am not that nice, but my friend is a softie, and when these 2 people had nowhere to go at all, she took them in on a temp basis.

It's crowded, yes, but it's also not like everyone is home all day and all at the same time, really, people in the household all work, go to school, etc. so there is a coming and going that alleviates things somewhat. Some household members are pretty much only there to bathe and sleep. And like I said, the house has been owned outright/paid off for years. It wouldn't make sense (IMO) to go out and buy a bigger house, acquire a mortgage, when some of the household members are not going to be living there for much longer anyway (teens).

[DexterCat]

Originally Posted by sabride

I wouldn't do it because I am not that nice, but my friend is a softie, and when these 2 people had nowhere to go at all, she took them in on a temp basis.

It's crowded, yes, but it's also not like everyone is home all day and all at the same time, really, people in the household all work, go to school, etc. so there is a coming and going that alleviates things somewhat. Some household members are pretty much only there to bathe and sleep. And like I said, the house has been owned outright/paid off for years. It wouldn't make sense (IMO) to go out and buy a bigger house, acquire a mortgage, when some of the household members are not going to be living there for much longer anyway (teens).

to each his own i guess. id be more worried about the homeless ripping everything off (unless your buddies know them personally?) and bringing in lord knows what kind of bugs (lice and chiggers, scabies etc etc).

still though, kudos for helping out people in their time of need, just be extremely careful about it and lock up all guns / valuables.

[Sally_Sparrow]

Originally Posted by DexterCat

while helping people out is a noble cause, subjecting themselves to sub-standard living conditions is indeed sad and a health risk. that many people clumped together creates a lot of health risks. not just viral, but physical as well.

/i have 1100 sqft and thats barely enough for my wife, myself and my 2 cats!

With all due respect, no offense intended, but honestly, I think that some people have drastically different ideas of what constitutes "adequate space".

I think that your comment reflects modern ideas of what is necessary, but others live very simply, and that's ok too. Years ago I lived in an 850 square foot, 2 bedroom apartment with my spouse, baby, and young child. Two bedrooms, living, kitchen.. and with very minimal possessions, it was not any kind of problem.

I think the key is not having a lot of "stuff" and these folks do not have a lot of stuff, very minimalist.

There aren't people all piled up like kittens in the beds and the house is clean and free of clutter so......