Is SF racist? (Oakland, Berkeley: groceries, wealthy, station)

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jade408

Firefighters have so many problems with unfair hiring practices. It is so much of a good old boy club.

On the flipside, NYC had the reverse problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/ny...pagewanted=all

It happens, but there is an abundance of evidence that people are having problems even getting in the door: In Job Hunt, College Degree Can’t Close Racial Gap - NYTimes.com

I don't have the links handy about name bias in hiring decisions. We focus on so called "black names" not faring well in the job hunt. But this is also true of latin, asian, and african names. I've experienced this first hand when sitting in the hiring chair. Other people were quick to move resumes to the unqualified stack if they had clearly asian names or asian educational pedigrees.

There have been a few studies where they used the same resume with different "ethnic" names and an all-american one. In each case, the ethnic names received 1/3 of the call backs as the "all-american" name. The same thing happens with looking for rental housing.

So for every case of "white discrimination" I wonder how many incidents of minority discrimination go unreported and uncounted -- it is impossible to know you were discriminated against if you don't even get invited to the front door.

Hear hear!

I saw a report on those studies too but I also can't recall who did them or where to find them. If you have a name like Lan Nguyen, Alberto Gonzalez. Tamika Jackson or Abdifatah Haji, there's no way you can compete with a Richard Harris or a Kristen Johnson. I've sort of had it half way myself; I'm a black male with a very American sounding name. A few times the enthusiasm I've received over the phone vanished when I walked in in person well dressed and well groomed.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by KRISTINsf

Are you joking me!?

1. Tell that to the old Asian man who was savagely murdered by a pack of racist black youths. He was thrown down a bus station and left to die.


....


Yes, definitely equal over here. It's just that the Asians are the only ones being murdered and savagely beaten over here. Totally Equal!!!!

The point is, not all black on asian crime is because the black criminal was looking for an asian victim. This is not so common in the bay area. There isn't a general mistrust of all asian people like there is in let's say, LA.

There are of course incidents where a black criminal attacked an asian person, but they likely weren't targeting someone asian.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Hear hear!

I saw a report on those studies too but I also can't recall who did them or where to find them. If you have a name like Lan Nguyen, Alberto Gonzalez. Tamika Jackson or Abdifatah Haji, there's no way you can compete with a Richard Harris or a Kristen Johnson. I've sort of had it half way myself; I'm a black male with a very American sounding name. A few times the enthusiasm I've received over the phone vanished when I walked in in person well dressed and well groomed.

I always wonder about this. I have an "American" looking name as well. But suddenly people aren't as excited when I get there. Or I make it really far in the interview process...and then something happens at the finish line.

I had an Iranian boss one time. He made everyone without an American sounding name come up with a new alias or nickname, as he had done himself.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jade408

The point is, not all black on asian crime is because the black criminal was looking for an asian victim. This is not so common in the bay area. There isn't a general mistrust of all asian people like there is in let's say, LA.

There are of course incidents where a black criminal attacked an asian person, but they likely weren't targeting someone asian.

This is one way some give themselves away as outsiders. Anyone who knows SF is fully aware of the randomness of crime in the city. In most cities, victims often know their attackers or at least are in some way from the same sort of circle. Why a person is targeted in SF is often very difficult and at times impossible to figure out. At times even the motives can become blurred. How anyone can say something as ambiguous as a nameless black targeted a nameless Asian because they are Asian shows true ignorance of San Francisco.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by jade408

I always wonder about this. I have an "American" looking name as well. But suddenly people aren't as excited when I get there. Or I make it really far in the interview process...and then something happens at the finish line.

I had an Iranian boss one time. He made everyone without an American sounding name come up with a new alias or nickname, as he had done himself.

All depends on who is on the other side of the hiring doesn't it? If it is an Indian/Chinese/A/B/C/1/2/3 person, i doubt an Indian/Chinese/A/B/C/1/2/3 sounding name would matter much to them.... 'non american' name .. I don't really get what that means?
A name that reflects on your race matters only if the person looking at the name/race isn't of it and has a negative association w/ your race ... Given the dominant races in the bay areas in 'certain' fields, I am kind of thinking name/race identifying characteristics only matter to a 'small' 'few' of the minority races that aren't generally present on the other side of the hiring table.

[BVitamin]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Hear hear!

I saw a report on those studies too but I also can't recall who did them or where to find them. If you have a name like Lan Nguyen, Alberto Gonzalez. Tamika Jackson or Abdifatah Haji, there's no way you can compete with a Richard Harris or a Kristen Johnson. I've sort of had it half way myself; I'm a black male with a very American sounding name. A few times the enthusiasm I've received over the phone vanished when I walked in in person well dressed and well groomed.

I've dealt with stuff like that, a lot, it is not fun.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

This is one way some give themselves away as outsiders. Anyone who knows SF is fully aware of the randomness of crime in the city. In most cities, victims often know their attackers or at least are in some way from the same sort of circle. Why a person is targeted in SF is often very difficult and at times impossible to figure out. At times even the motives can become blurred. How anyone can say something as ambiguous as a nameless black targeted a nameless Asian because they are Asian shows true ignorance of San Francisco.

Wouldn't say this 'gives someone away' as an 'outsider' .. In general, crime is random. In this regard, SF holds no uniqueness. Thus, I agree w/ your statement as a general one... but hardly feel the need to trumpet SF as some bastion of race relations that is so different from other places that a person needs to be an 'insider' to get it...

Vulnerable old person ... easy target .. as simple as that.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

Wouldn't say this 'gives someone away' as an 'outsider' .. In general, crime is random. In this regard, SF holds no uniqueness. Thus, I agree w/ your statement as a general one... but hardly feel the need to trumpet SF as some bastion of race relations that is so different from other places that a person needs to be an 'insider' to get it...

Vulnerable old person ... easy target .. as simple as that.

I never suggested SF is a bastion of race relations. Race relations was not the point I was making. My point was that the crime in SF is more random than in other cities. I disagree with your statement that crime in general is random. Let's take the Bay Area's whipping boy Oakland. Crime in Oakland is concentrated in specific areas and generally involves a certain "circle" targeting each other. At times bystanders are victims but these people were not the targets. Not that that fact helps them much. In SF crime tends to be much more spread out and a person can be targeted simply because they were there. I'm not saying SF is a crime ridden city, it certainly isn't but the nature of what happens there is different than it is in most other places.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I never suggested SF is a bastion of race relations. Race relations was not the point I was making. My point was that the crime in SF is more random than in other cities. I disagree with your statement that crime in general is random. Let's take the Bay Area's whipping boy Oakland. Crime in Oakland is concentrated in specific areas and generally involves a certain "circle" targeting each other. At times bystanders are victims but these people were not the targets. Not that that fact helps them much. In SF crime tends to be much more spread out and a person can be targeted simply because they were there. I'm not saying SF is a crime ridden city, it certainly isn't but the nature of what happens there is different than it is in most other places.

I agree. Since crime in Oakland is so concentrated, you can easily limit your access to those areas and you'll have a pretty low risk of being a victim of a crime. It is a shock when something happens outside of one of those areas.

In SF, crime happens all over the place all the time. There isn't really a "safe" zone. Crime can and does happen in the Mission, in SOMA, at Union Square or in Pac Heights.

In Oakland, crime is very rare in places like Rockridge, Montclair and Trestle Glen.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I never suggested SF is a bastion of race relations. Race relations was not the point I was making. My point was that the crime in SF is more random than in other cities. I disagree with your statement that crime in general is random. Let's take the Bay Area's whipping boy Oakland. Crime in Oakland is concentrated in specific areas and generally involves a certain "circle" targeting each other. At times bystanders are victims but these people were not the targets. Not that that fact helps them much. In SF crime tends to be much more spread out and a person can be targeted simply because they were there. I'm not saying SF is a crime ridden city, it certainly isn't but the nature of what happens there is different than it is in most other places.

Crime is generally random. In the context of your comment(which is important), that means it isn't race motivated !
Crimes, in general, aren't race motivated all over the U.S. I agreed w/ your comments as general statements but they hardly had anything to do w/ specifics of SF ..

Originally Posted by Gentoo

This is one way some give themselves away as outsiders. Anyone who knows SF is fully aware of the randomness of crime in the city. In most cities, victims often know their attackers or at least are in some way from the same sort of circle. Why a person is targeted in SF is often very difficult and at times impossible to figure out. At times even the motives can become blurred. How anyone can say something as ambiguous as a nameless black targeted a nameless Asian because they are Asian shows true ignorance of San Francisco.

Fixed it for you :
Anyone who knows crime is fully aware of the randomness of crime. In most instances, victims often know their attackers or at least are in some way from the same sort of circle. Why a person is targeted is often very difficult and at times impossible to figure out. At times even the motives can become blurred. How anyone can say something as ambiguous as a nameless black targeted a nameless Asian because they are Asian shows true ignorance.

Crime in SF is not anymore random (race wise - the context/topic) than any other place..So, it hardly requires an 'insider' to understand.

The media marginalizes certain minority groups, makes a big thing out of nothing when a certain race is the victim/other times its just a blurb .. And many people including insiders/outsiders don't use their brains beyond that. There were many 'ignorant' (insiders) all over the bay area (including SF) that believed and still do that it was race targeted...