If you can afford it, the SF Bay Area is the greatest place in the world (Mountain View: sale, lawyers)

[mini_cute]

Yes, at the end of the day it is all really subjective. For me personally, this is why I am currently choosing to live in Oakland/San Francisco (moving back to SF in the next few months). Long post to follow.

The mild weather - The Bay Area has lovely weather imo. It is very sunny here compared to a lot of places. Not humid. But it doesn't get extremely hot. The suburbs of LA where I grew up was a little too hot for my taste. SF can be foggy, windy, and not have real summers, but I'd take that over sweating like a dog. Also, the quality of light in SF is beautiful- hard to describe but it has a certain clarity to it, kind of like the light on a white sandy beach, but without the shores. Might be because SF used to be made of sand dunes. Also, the afternoon golden light is gorgeous.

The air quality in SF - Okay, so California in general has crappy air quality due to smog. But SF itself has great air quality for an urban city cause the wind, fog, etc. blows it away. Visitors from LA constantly comment on how fresh the air is when they come. Sometimes the air can smell really nice from my window- sometimes it smells like a forest, occasionally like strawberry patches, and many times like the ocean. On the other hand, the Mission District stinks, BART stations and homeless areas stink, and sometimes the smell from restaurants stinks. But when you can get away from that, the smells can be lovely especially after rain. Also, don't forget the smell of the eucalyptus trees.

The geographical beauty - I love living near water and the Bay is beautiful, the mountains, and even the sky. The sky in SF gets quite blue with puffy white clouds. Even the fog which some may loathe produces the most fantastic visual effects as it spills over Twin Peaks. I also love living so close to the ocean. I grew up in Cali, so living in landlocked areas would feel weird for me.

The Asians - I like to live where there is a sizable Asian population with a good offering of Asian restaurants. Indeed, the core identity of SF is sort of Asian since the Chinese have been here since the gold rush times. An Asian friend from NYC told me when visiting that she doesn't feel her "Asian-ness" when she is here. Because Asian-ness is not considered as "exotic" and incorporated into the culture. It is everywhere. I appreciate that the caucasians here can eat Banh Mi and use chopsticks.

California - I was born and raised in California, specifically the suburbs of LA. So it still feels like home living in SF/Bay Area than if I was to live in NYC for example. Family can easily drive up highway 5 to visit and us drive down. We have relatives from LA that love to visit every year and we go back to LA every Christmas. Happy times.

Dense urban area - SF is the second densest city in the US. LA is a bigger city and larger metro and can be considered more of a global city than SF in many ways, but it is spread out. I like how dense SF is and the density of architecture of different eras. You can live the urban lifestyle here.

Opportunity - SF is a place that has opportunity for many. These days it is mostly tech, but there is opportunity in other ways- like chance to meet different people and have different experiences. Maybe not on the level of NYC, but more than most places in the US.

Liberal - Okay, on the one hand, I did move here to be around liberal-minded people. But I also get irritated by some of the more extreme narrow-minded liberals. Despite the number of liberal hypocrites who drive SUVS, there are also lots who drive electric cars and helps support the EV infrastructure. There is more support for progressive things like that than in most other places in the US.

Educated people - I just feel like people do things at a higher level here than in other places, except maybe NYC and the Northeast corridor- those people are really smart- but SF and the Bay Area is pretty right up there.

History - Unlike a lot of cities in the US, SF has some significant history and that is stimulating and interesting to me.

Produce - Wow, amazing fresh produce because farm country is not too far and lots of farmers markets and artisans foods. As a home-cook this is paradise.

Pace of life - SF is still pretty laid back for begin as dense as it is. NYC was too fast for me.

Healthy - SF is a place where it is easier to be healthy. There is a strong health-concious culture here. Vegetarians options at almost any restaurant. Lots of people to exercise with. Places to do outdoor activities.

Okay, things I don't like:

Visible and centrally located homeless population which can be quite aggressive and threatening. That leads to making the city more dirty and filthy.

Traffic - I don't like the way people drive in SF and the surrounding areas. Lots of hit and runs. Cars prioritized for a long time over any other mode. Hey, its California right? =p

Infrastructure - crumbling roads and sidewalks, potholes, blight

Food is good but not great. Yes, I agree with some who don't think the food in SF is that great. If you like mid-level fine dining creative american stuff, there are lots of options and new restaurants opening all the time. But i tend to find they all taste the same. =( I also prefer ethnic food. While SF has its ethnic spots, they are too dirty. I get food poisoned a lot. I find myself underwhelmed or grossed out a lot more than I should. But it is still better than a lot of places in the US. Really, the food in America sucks compared to most other places in the world. Asia, Europe, you name it, they have better food. Heck, even Canada- Vancouver has amazing food.

Jerks and douchebags - really lots of disrespectful people who drive aggressively, litter, talk loud in quite places, spit on the sidewalk, sure there are lots of polite people too, but there are almost as much people who seem to have never learned manners. Even parents who allow their kids to go crazy in restaurants, make a mess, crawl everywhere and act like a monkey.

Fashion - Okay, so SF doesn't lead in style but even worse, a lot of people don't even seem to take pride in their appearance. Some don't look like they have basic hygiene down, brush or wash hair. Stains on clothes. To be fashionable is one thing, but a lot of SF has trouble even looking decently presentable.

Run down old homes - Why are so many houses and Victorians in SF in such dire need of a paint job? It's like people don't take care of their homes, or the rental landlords don't care to fix them up. Even one or two of the painted ladies a couple years ago looked like they desperately needed a paint job. I like old homes to look at, but only if they are well-kept. If not, it just gives everything a slummy look.

Irresponsible dog owners - I hate dodging these land mines from people who should know better

Provincial attitudes - People who think SF is so special for good and bad- like they think their problems are so unique to them without having the knowledge, experience, or perspective to see things in the larger context. Also, who think SF is the best city and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Also, the hyper-sensitivity to civil issues. Like everything is perceived as racism even when it is not. Too PC to a fault. And narrow-minded. Worse part is, they think they are so cultured and aware when they aren't. And they can even get downright smug too.

[mini_cute]

Originally Posted by sav858

And it leaves out SF so there is no point of comparison. There's very little useful information from that blog post.

SF is left out because it didn't even make it on the list. But if you want other lists, I can furnish them. But what would be the point- you don't want to believe that SF isn't that expensive in the global scheme of things. Some people believe what they want to believe.

[Bisaro TMF]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

It's a lot nicer than Walnut Creek. Certainly less paved over. Waterfront property, beaches, bays, marinas, preserves, parks.

Oh and 15 minutes away you can buy a house for 450k and send your kids to the same schools.

no comparison anymore, SF is on a whole other level now.

You can get a 450K mansion in Brentwood and have decent schools also. Commuting 1-2 hours in freezing weather sucks.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by Bisaro TMF

You can get a 450K mansion in Brentwood and have decent schools also. Commuting 1-2 hours in freezing weather sucks.

You're exaggerating, but I get the sense you don't know NY area very well. Again, where I grew up is a lot nicer place to live than Brentwood CA, which geographically undesirable, has poor schools in comparison, no waterfront, no history, mass-produced tract housing, etc. just not a real comparison. Think Marin County. I would say my town is a lot like San Anselmo, Mill Valley, that type of area. There are parts that are very similar to Tiburon as well. Only material difference is the commute time, which nets out to be not that different, especially if you are commuting into the peninsula.

Here you go... 45 minutes to NYC by train and some of the best schools in the the country. Elite area with a cute village full of shops and restaurants and historical sites. Walk to bays and beaches. I could pull a hundred of these.
55 Wendover Drive, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com
12 Sue Circle, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com
1 Cliftwood Court, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com

These homes would sell for 900k+++ in Marin. Here's what a million gets you.. a bona fide beaux artes mansion!
58 Bay Crest Drive, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com

People in CA don't understand that the housing boom didn't happen so dramatically elsewhere in the country. SF is fantastically expensive by any measure. Whether it's worth it is subjective and a matter of opinion. Don't get me wrong, NY sucks on many levels (that's why I don't live there) but in a shocking turn of events, it's now a better value than the SF bay area.

[mini_cute]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

You're exaggerating, but I get the sense you don't know NY area very well. Again, where I grew up is a lot nicer place to live than Brentwood CA, which geographically undesirable, has poor schools in comparison, no waterfront, no history, mass-produced tract housing, etc. just not a real comparison. Think Marin County. I would say my town is a lot like San Anselmo, Mill Valley, that type of area. There are parts that are very similar to Tiburon as well. Only material difference is the commute time, which nets out to be not that different, especially if you are commuting into the peninsula.

Here you go... 45 minutes to NYC by train and some of the best schools in the the country. Elite area with a cute village full of shops and restaurants and historical sites. Walk to bays and beaches. I could pull a hundred of these.
55 Wendover Drive, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com
12 Sue Circle, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com
1 Cliftwood Court, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com

People in CA don't understand that the housing boom didn't happen so dramatically elsewhere in the country. SF is fantastically expensive by any measure. Whether it's worth it is subjective.

I agree here if referring to better schools. California schools mostly just suck, unless you live in one of the few good school areas which tend to be expensive. the NY area has great schools. Heck, people in the Northeast just tend to be all around smart and I am sure that spills into their education system.

[bmw335xi]

$450k buys you an old ugly house in Brentwood that would pass as lower middle class in most cities in America.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

$450k buys you an old ugly house in Brentwood that would pass as lower middle class in most cities in America.

Yes this is the one thing about the Bay Area that sucks above all else. Too many awesome people have to leave because they want an ideal life that costs 2-3 million in the Bay, unfortunately.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Bisaro TMF

It's about the same as here And you have to drive 2 hours to get into the city, not to mention it's boring as hell out there and the weather sucks.

The suburbs here are priced much more overall than the NYC area, especially when you factor in things like crime and schools. What makes their suburbs any more boring than the one's here exactly?

[Bisaro TMF]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

You're exaggerating, but I get the sense you don't know NY area very well. Again, where I grew up is a lot nicer place to live than Brentwood CA, which geographically undesirable, has poor schools in comparison, no waterfront, no history, mass-produced tract housing, etc. just not a real comparison. Think Marin County. I would say my town is a lot like San Anselmo, Mill Valley, that type of area. There are parts that are very similar to Tiburon as well. Only material difference is the commute time, which nets out to be not that different, especially if you are commuting into the peninsula.

Here you go... 45 minutes to NYC by train and some of the best schools in the the country. Elite area with a cute village full of shops and restaurants and historical sites. Walk to bays and beaches. I could pull a hundred of these.
55 Wendover Drive, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com
12 Sue Circle, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com
1 Cliftwood Court, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com

These homes would sell for 900k+++ in Marin. Here's what a million gets you.. a bona fide beaux artes mansion!
58 Bay Crest Drive, Huntington, NY For Sale | Trulia.com

People in CA don't understand that the housing boom didn't happen so dramatically elsewhere in the country. SF is fantastically expensive by any measure. Whether it's worth it is subjective and a matter of opinion. Don't get me wrong, NY sucks on many levels (that's why I don't live there) but in a shocking turn of events, it's now a better value than the SF bay area.

Marin is VERY close to SF that's not a fair comparison at all. You have me on the school thing.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by Bisaro TMF

Marin is VERY close to SF that's not a fair comparison at all. You have me on the school thing.

How long does it take to commute from Marin to Palo Alto by train? By car? Most of the high paying jobs in tech aren't in SF. The thing about NY, is once you get to Manhattan, every job is 15 minutes away.

Here's what 1.5MM gets you in one of the best suburbs within a reasonable commute of Manhattan, again, compare to Marin prices.
http://www.trulia.com/property/32177...-City-NY-11530