SF Officials Seek $5 Million To Protect Undocumented Immigrants From Deportation (Brea: amusement park, hotels)

[Masterful_Man]

Originally Posted by zitsky

Just like slavery used to be legal and officials in northern states should have returned escaped slaves. After all slavery was legal somewhere, amirite?

No, not at all.
This issue isn't even remotely similar to chattel slavery, not even close.

The victim in this case is the American taxpayer, at the tune of 100+ billion dollars a year.
Not to mention all the overcrowding in schools and over-burdened infrastructure that can't keep up with the growing immigrant population in addition to the native population already here. And also drug & human trafficking along with it.

How immigration is done can either make or break a nation.
If we had total open borders, like leftist-anarchists desire, America would probably collapse in less than a decade and many people would die as a result. Immigration has to be controlled at a certain pace, to allow the infrastructure to keep up with the expanding population. And every nation eventually reaches a max limit. I imagine countries like Bangladesh and parts of India are close to their max limit for population.

In nations like the United States, our max limit is definitely much lower, since we tend to prefer our space and we desire to protect our environment and natural resources. A city like San Francisco doesn't have much more room to grow. I'm also curious as to what undocumented illegals would be doing in San Francisco? The cost of living in the city is so high, why on Earth would they even want to come to SF?

[zitsky]

Originally Posted by Masterful_Man

No, not at all.
This issue isn't even remotely similar to chattel slavery, not even close.

The victim in this case is the American taxpayer, at the tune of 100+ billion dollars a year.
Not to mention all the overcrowding in schools and over-burdened infrastructure that can't keep up with the growing immigrant population in addition to the native population already here. And also drug & human trafficking along with it.

How immigration is done can either make or break a nation.
If we had total open borders, like leftist-anarchists desire, America would probably collapse in less than a decade and many people would die as a result. Immigration has to be controlled at a certain pace, to allow the infrastructure to keep up with the expanding population. And every nation eventually reaches a max limit. I imagine countries like Bangladesh and parts of India are close to their max limit for population.

In nations like the United States, our max limit is definitely much lower, since we tend to prefer our space and we desire to protect our environment and natural resources. A city like San Francisco doesn't have much more room to grow. I'm also curious as to what undocumented illegals would be doing in San Francisco? The cost of living in the city is so high, why on Earth would they even want to come to SF?

Sure, let's decide to keep certain groups out of this country. After all, we did it for the Chinese and the Jews in WW II.

/s

This country has (almost) always accepted immigrants. We will survive, and no, society will not collapse just because we let in 100,000 immigrants. Did you just make up that figure of $100 Billion? I'm pretty sure that you did.

[Masterful_Man]

Originally Posted by zitsky

Sure, let's decide to keep certain groups out of this country. After all, we did it for the Chinese and the Jews in WW II.

Laws against illegal immigration don't discriminate against any group, they're there to stop ALL illegal immigrants regardless of ethnic or racial background.

If you're referring to Trump's recent ban on immigrants from certain middle eastern nations, like Syria for instance, then that is a totally different issue than the one being discussed in this thread.

Originally Posted by zitsky

This country has (almost) always accepted immigrants.

And America has always had immigration laws as well, and they were much more stricter a long time ago than they're today. A hundred years ago many immigrants coming into America were detained and given mandatory medical inspections on Ellis island (Angel island for the west coast) to ensure that they weren't infected with contagious illnesses. It was actually much more difficult for immigrants back then than it is today.

Originally Posted by zitsky

We will survive, and no, society will not collapse just because we let in 100,000 immigrants. Did you just make up that figure of $100 Billion? I'm pretty sure that you did.

You missed my point. I was referring to a small contingent on the political left that wants open borders. If we had open borders in America probably tens of millions of people would flood into our country in a short period of time, it would be a total disaster.

The $100 billion figure comes from the Federation for American Immigration Reform which calculated all of the costs of illegal immigration on the federal and state levels and came to a figure of around $113 billion dollars. It's the only in depth study on the cost of illegal immigration that I know of.

[TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken]

oh, yea?

How about distributing that 5 million to people like me just getting by on our six figure salaries. Take care of a native san franciscan, war veteran, and tax paying honorable citizen like me, over some illegal. I say that as a first generation "american".

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

oh, yea?

How about distributing that 5 million to people like me just getting by on our six figure salaries. Take care of a native san franciscan, war veteran, and tax paying honorable citizen like me, over some illegal. I say that as a first generation "american".

5 million is like 2 houses in sf, it's not much money.

[TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

5 million is like 2 houses in sf, it's not much money.

unfortunately, you're right, lol.

[Ruth4Truth]

Why would they do that? What's in it for SF? Is SF's gov't in cahoots with the hotel industry that needs cheap labor? If they need money to help illegals, they should do private fundraising. This isn't an appropriate expense for public funds.

[NextStage]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Why would they do that? What's in it for SF? Is SF's gov't in cahoots with the hotel industry that needs cheap labor? If they need money to help illegals, they should do private fundraising. This isn't an appropriate expense for public funds.

I don't really think it's completely an issue of labor. I think it's also a case of San Francisco wanting to view itself as a place of refuge and acceptance - particularly for people who may face persecution in their home country.

It seems NY did this back in 2013 so this isn't a new concept.

I've linked a statement piece from Jeff Adachi that explains the rationale a bit more. I'm not entirely sure I agree with all of it - but on the surface, it does have a bit of merit.

Why we should provide lawyers for immigrants facing deportation - by jeff-adachi, niloufar-khonsari, ana-herrera, laura-sanchez - The San Francisco Examiner

[zitsky]

Originally Posted by NextStage

I don't really think it's completely an issue of labor. I think it's also a case of San Francisco wanting to view itself as a place of refuge and acceptance - particularly for people who may face persecution in their home country.

It seems NY did this back in 2013 so this isn't a new concept.

I've linked a statement piece from Jeff Adachi that explains the rationale a bit more. I'm not entirely sure I agree with all of it - but on the surface, it does have a bit of merit.

Why we should provide lawyers for immigrants facing deportation - by jeff-adachi, niloufar-khonsari, ana-herrera, laura-sanchez - The San Francisco Examiner

Bingo. What's wrong with a little compassion? Is that old fashioned these days? People act like every illegal immigrant is out to rape your women and rob your men. Most of them just want a safe place to live.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by NextStage

I don't really think it's completely an issue of labor. I think it's also a case of San Francisco wanting to view itself as a place of refuge and acceptance - particularly for people who may face persecution in their home country.

It seems NY did this back in 2013 so this isn't a new concept.

I've linked a statement piece from Jeff Adachi that explains the rationale a bit more. I'm not entirely sure I agree with all of it - but on the surface, it does have a bit of merit.

Why we should provide lawyers for immigrants facing deportation - by jeff-adachi, niloufar-khonsari, ana-herrera, laura-sanchez - The San Francisco Examiner

Refuge for whom? The war in Central America, the genocide in Guatemala that led to the birth of the sanctuary movement, is over. Now we have kids fleeing drug cartel and gang violence in Honduras and El Salvador. Immigration law could be amended to allow for that. A sanctuary movement isn't necessary just for that.

SF wants to provide sanctuary for guys like the repeat offender who shot that journalist on Pier 14? Is that a good idea?

I don't know what it's an issue of; I was just guessing, because it seems rather strange at this point in time. The number of people facing persecution in Mexico and Central America is small enough now that the whole sanctuary movement could be rolled back to the churches, where it originated. I honestly see no need to continue an outdated practice.

BTW, I've met quite a few illegals here in NM. None of them are political refugees. They're all here for jobs. I even had a couple of friends from Ecuador turn up in the Bay Area as illegals, because they'd taken on a major debt back home, and needed good pay to pay it off. They left when they'd met their financial goals.

If certain industries need cheap workers, the process by which employers apply to bring temporary workers in legally needs to be improved, so that it works more efficiently, and industry can get the workers they need. A sanctuary program is the wrong approach. The sanctuary program was born of an extraordinary crisis in Central America. The crisis has passed. It's time to look at better solutions to the variety of problems that motivate people south of our border to come north, IMO.