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We are a family of 3. My husband works in hi tech and I work in education. We have a young son. We earn a decent income but it's still not enough to purchase the 3/4 of million dollar homes-1,000 sq ft (if you are lucky) in the area. We currently live on the peninsula.
We have thought about other places such as Austin, TX, Seattle, WA, SoCal (Orange County, which we found slightly cheaper than the bay area, but still incredibly expensive).
We are incredibly frustrated because we cannot find the right place for us. We are looking for culture, tolerance (we are an interracial couple), family life, safety, good schools, great restaurants and things to do.
We too are an interracial couple and seek these things. We are fortunate to own a home now. Purchased for $330K, now worth $1.2M. We have kids and when considering alternative cheaper places to move to, we avoid places that we perceive as intolerant. It is why we stay....for now.
we avoid places that we perceive as intolerant. It is why we stay....for now.
I've heard this quite a bit from people out here. This fear of the great unknown in living anywhere else except for the Bay Area simply because anywhere else must surely be intolerant and un-accepting of anything different.
Perception versus actual experience is totally different. I'm from one of those places I'm sure you have marked off the map as an acceptable substitute. I grew up literally in the sticks in a town that could barely be called a town. What's interesting is that my brother's ex-girlfriend was Vietnamese. She actually moved down from Boston to be with him. She never had any problems, and neither did he for that matter. In fact, she still lives there. Two of his best friends came " out of the closet" and had been dating each other for years. They came from a family of hard-core military people. They all lived in 3 trailer homes all smished into one yard. Did the family disown them? No, in fact they really didn't make a big deal about it. Even helped them out when they looked for a new place. They're now in college. I have an Aunt who lives in Memphis. Her two best friends are a black lesbian couple who've been together for over 30 years. No big deal.
I guess what I'm getting at is that the world is a big place, people are changing and so are attitudes. I'd say your experience in most major metro areas across the country are going to be similar, which is to say that yes- some people will give you looks, just as I'm sure you get on occasion in SF. But most people will likely be on their merry way and not really be that concerned about whether a couple is the same race, or whether someone is straight or not, or whether you're religious.
Lastly, as many of you have seen from posts like this, places like CA, NY, MA, and other so-called progressive states are losing an awful lot of their young families, young couples, and college graduates to other more affordable states. The state of NC has gained 10% more people in less than 10 years. That's the story with many other states, like TX, GA, TN, and so on. Most of those new arrivals are there because they wanted something better for their futures and a way to live within financial reason. Thus it's safe to say that this population shift is and will continue to bear directly in the politics, attitude, and tolerance of those areas as their populations get increasingly filled with ex-pats from here and afar. To me, the differences between regions and states becomes less apparent with each passing year. Take advantage of it.
Most informative message about moving from Oakland
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
In 1991 I lived in Berkeley and had nine yards in the upper Broadway Terrace area that I maintained. That is till the Oakland/Berkeley hills fire in October. I lost all nine yards and overnight I was unemployed and going on 32 years old. A friend of mine owned property in Humboldt county in the Garberville area and offered me the opportunity to try living in the woods the old fashioned way. I did that four seven years and got the chance to buy a 3 bedroom, 3 bath home on almost a half an acre for $115,000 in 2000. Now in 2007 the place is worth over $300,000 with the addition of a 2 car garage and other home improvements. That is about average for a typical single family home here in McKinleyville, 12 miles north of Eureka California. McK is an unincorporated community of close to 15,000 and growing, with a large big-K, a Safeway complex,a Rays foodmart, 2 hardware stores, a feedstore, 18 plus eating establishments, 6 gas stations and a nine-plex theatre. Homes with an ocean view and even a short walk to the beach may go for as low as $255,000 for a small home and to the $700-800,000 range for an executive mansion in a gated community nearly on the beach. The town has grown in leaps and bounds over the last ten years. We have and airport called the Eureka/Arcata airport, yet is in Mck. Arcata is a state university town that is much like Berkeley in culture and attitude and is around 17,000 people. Right now the Humboldt bay region is great for retirement or construction jobs due to the large amount of home growth here. Most of the local long time citizens can no longer afford to buy a home here, it is down to 12% of the locals can afford to. I am a gardener and someone is always in need of one, so I am seldom without work. Google Eureka, Arcata, McKinleyville, Fortuna and Ferndale in Humboldt county and be surprised at how few people there are up here, totol county population in around 130,000 and Eureka is the largest town and county seat with just over 28,000 people. The weather is much the same as Berkeley, Richmond and San Fransisco. Inland 5 miles it can get in the 90's and 100's in the summer. I have family in Vacaville and Pittsburg and visit a few times a year. I always look forward to returning home where there is no rush hour traffic, smog or crowds. The highway is always clear and moving fast. If one loves victorians , then Ferndale is a joy to partake of, the whole town is a historic victorian village. Eureka has many beautiful victorians amidst it's vast array of architecture styles. Take a trip up here to see the Eel river and the large redwood trees and you will see why I love it here. It is only 350 miles north and the drive is a breeze once your'e past Santa Rosa.
Martin
Thinking about leaving Oakland where I've lived since 1971. New Relationship wants new start in home together, and even though we own a victorian house, no way can we afford to "swap" and stay near Emeryville. This message hit just about every button immaginable-- house prices, weather, why he even mentions victorians.. Now to find a place and start packing!
TA
You should be OK when you cash out of your home of 36 years... The only downside is, and it is a big one if you plan to stay in California, is you will be giving up an extremely low property tax bill for the privilege of moving.
On the bright side, just think of all the money you will adding to the local coffers for those of us that stay behind.
Any chance that the significant other will reconsider?
As for the zoning laws, which place requires new homes to be over 2000 square feet? It would appear that with concerns over global warming and the environment, and California being a liberal and environmental state, smaller homes would be favored here as heating and cooling costs would be less.
This is the real "problem" as touched on by another poster.
The Economist had an editorial about this a couple years ago.
The phony environmental laws in California that keep the housing supply down. It's an artificially inflated market, that's what people don't understand. A whole mess of people would lose a whole lot of money if those laws were amended and made sense and were fair.
""Environmental groups" shut down construction near the San Francisco Bay. The California Supreme Court switched its allegiance from local political leaders to preservationists in rulings that required environmental impact reviews for vast numbers of new building projects. As it got harder to build, developers moved to places like Houston and Las Vegas, which are distinguished more by pro-growth politics than delightful weather..."
But an area gets what it deserves in the long run. I remember fondly the gangs of young kids who keyed SUVs in the Mission district in the 90s. Unfortunately, they lost. I hope the latest dip in housing prices is an aberration because I have lots of friends in the area. Also, the possibility of recession would do ugly things as well. But I'm sure housing will always be stable there as long as there are people making 250k.
You should be OK when you cash out of your home of 36 years... The only downside is, and it is a big one if you plan to stay in California, is you will be giving up an extremely low property tax bill for the privilege of moving.
On the bright side, just think of all the money you will adding to the local coffers for those of us that stay behind.
Any chance that the significant other will reconsider?
That is not necessarily true. You can move and keep your same property tax rate as long as you are 55 years or older and you buy something that is at least 1 dollar less than the home you sell. Then you should be alright, but of course check with your CPA. Many people don't know this.
The phony environmental laws in California that keep the housing supply down. It's an artificially inflated market, that's what people don't understand. A whole mess of people would lose a whole lot of money if those laws were amended and made sense and were fair.
Completely correct. This seemingly overlooked aspect of Bay Area and California politics is the single biggest reason why homes cost as much as they do here. In other words, when you give too much control to localized groups- homeowners- they're ALL going to naturally want their home to be the LAST one built on the block. That's why most of the people in my neighborhood are older, established residents who "got in" before they passed these various laws. For them, the advantages have been enormous. They not only got their houses for a small fraction of what they cost now- even with inflation thrown in- , but they also got to enjoy the rising salaries all the way up through to present. Thefore they got it all: cheaper housing, low taxes, and higher wages that allow them to live far more lavish living standards than a younger family that actually makes more, yet can't even afford the smallest, most dilapidated house.
People say things like the Bay Area is so desirable, so progressive, and so on and hence that's why things are so expensive. I call B.S. This is one of the biggest reasons I'm not buying. I refuse to pay for someone's retirement in the form of helping them "cash out" only to have them move to AZ.
The system here has been corrupt and unfair for decades and it will take people realizing this if they want to make a change and bring things back to a level playing field. I'll probably be gone by then because it won't be too much longer that me and my wife will have saved up enough from our Bay Area salaries to simply move somewhere and buy outright and be done with it alltogether. I'm sure people will still be here bickering away, fighting over the little table scrap homes still demanding 700k prices.
That is not necessarily true. You can move and keep your same property tax rate as long as you are 55 years or older and you buy something that is at least 1 dollar less than the home you sell. Then you should be alright, but of course check with your CPA. Many people don't know this.
Perhaps I misunderstood... My take is that he is looking to move out a Alameda County. At one time, many counties had reciprocal agreements regarding Prop 13 and seniors... hasn't the number of reciprocal counties dwindled to just a few?
I moved to Atlanta several years ago and am Back here. Atlanta is boring as with most places in the south and Midwest IMO. Unless you want to go to night clubs every single night. What is there to do? Nothing. I'm sure most of these people fleeing these area's will end up back in them after realizing the places they think are cheaper are cheap for a reason. Not to mention you're salary will go down dramatically in another area because the cost of living is lower. I'd rather pay more and enjoy what california has to offer than be able to buy a huge house and be bored to death.
Yes, cheaper for a reason. I live in Scottsdale, AZ. Has a good reputation, and I am bored silly. I lived up there for six years. No time to get bored, too many things to do to get bored. Yes, I'm BORED.
I almost moved back last year, but got diverted by a relationship. Now I don't have the energy to make the move. Oh well. Have some dim sum for me the next time you're in Chinatown. Delicious Dim Sum on Jackson St. is great, even though it's a dive. They have these little rice balls I can't seem to find the recipe for anywhere.
"I left my heart in San Francisco" really applies to me.
You're absolutely right about upbringing. It has a LOT to do with personal preference. I'd also be curious to know where in the South you lived because just like the Northwest, there are some really crappy places to live, and some really great places to live. Huge difference between say the Blue Ridge Parkway NC and Atlanta GA. So I'd pare your judgment down to Atlanta... we Southerners hardly consider Atlanta to be part of the south anymore since it has gotten so enormous and bloated.
[i]As for the salary comparison, you can get a house out here making 65k a year. I know plenty of people who have. You may have to sacrafice more out here but there are more "Free" things to do here than most places."
I know plenty of people who bought with smaller salaries too... Most took out IO, ARM, or a combination of both, or they had wealthy parents.As the news reports these days show, quite a few of those people who used those loans are now upside down or about to be foreclosed upon. I make way more than that and there is absolutely no way that a home in SF can be bought on a 65k salary. I wouldn't consider buying anything here unless I topped $250k a year.
Let's break it down:
Median price of a home in SF: $720,000
30 year fixed monthly payment @ 5.75%: $4,201.72= $50,400/yr
Property tax annual fee: $7,200
So as you can see, the BARE minimum payment would equal $58,000 a year. This of course assumes that you don't have a car or car payments, no property insurance ( which in SF is a must) and that things like food, utility bills, clothes, vacations, health insurance, and the occasional "luxury" like an Ipod or perhaps a nice dinner somewhere.
But if we were to include such necessities to the final tab,it would go like this:
Car payments: $300
Car Insurance: $150
Gas: $50
Electric: $50
Property Insurance: ? not sure. let's say $1500 yr
Food: $200
"luxuries"-food, clothes, other: $200
Final "additional" charges amount: $11,400+ insurance= $12,900
So in order to get into the median price home, you would need a bare minimum of a $71,000 a year salary. The amounts I listed above were VERY conservative and less than what I pay. But who knows? maybe some people are less frugal than me, which is hard to imagine. This would also mean you would have NOTHING leftover to save. for what? A house?
Even if you get a loft, these lofts even in crappy parts of Oakland are easily $500,000 and up. We're still talking over $50,000 a year going just to bare minimum payments. Most people I know are pretty wasteful with money, so honestly, I wonder just how many people here are either in serious debt or just barely making it.
This in my opinion is no way to live and all the little quips of SF aren't enough to warrant the prices. The prices are only high because of restrictive growth measures that artificially limit the supplies anyway.
Good detailed calculation! But you forgot the federal\state tax, cost of kids care/education etc...
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Most informative message about moving from Oakland
