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I'm not in Sarasota, but at least in Palm Beach County, the older neighborhoods are the gentrified (or gentrifying) near downtown, and the historic areas and neighborhoods. I do know Sarasota has some. The key is to not confuse "older" with "the ghetto." See if there are any areas that invite the outside community "in" for special events, such as historic home tours, etc. Such neighborhoods tend to have pride, and are welcoming, rather than unwelcoming (big gates), and most likely (no guarantees) will feel like "old time neighborhoods up north."
Here, the "newer" neighborhoods tend to be West of the Turnpike, where you can get a bigger house, gated, etc. for the money that you can farther east. That is what many people like and want, and more power to them. I don't know if I could ever do it. I can only truly speak for the neighborhood I live in, as well as the neighborhoods my friends who also live in the older neighborhoods live in, of course, but I have been shocked at the level of neighborliness --- for the positive (if anything, I'M the recluse!).
In my neighborhood, for example, it's non-gated, and voluntary "HOA" ($30/year). There's holiday home tours, monthly or bi-monthly get togethers, last week we had a 30+ home neighborhood super garage sale, where I met even more neighbors. There was a walking tour a month or two ago, Spring garden tours, holiday light decorating contests, a halloween block party, etc. etc. etc. One long time resident (decades living in the neighborhood), died and there was a neighborhood memorial for him. There are also e-mail blasts periodically to keep everyone up to date, and if something bad happens in the neighborhood (a break in, for example), we're all informed basically immediately.
A couple miles South, friends of mine live in another non-gated section of the city, and just had a baby. Neighbors brought over food and gifts. If my friend has the hood up on his car, two neighbors will come over to ask if they can help, etc. etc.
The next town over, Lake Worth, has similar neighborhoods with community pride and spirit, home tours, etc.
These areas do exist in Florida, which is why it makes me frustrated when transplants move from up north, straight into some behemoth gated development where everyone rolls in and out of their garage without ever getting out, and then lament a "lack of community."
100% agree - this is pretty much how our neighborhood is here in Sarasota. There are plenty of nice neighborhoods like this here and in Florida - the thing is, just as you stated, it's the nice OLDER "in-town" neighborhoods where you find the true community spirit and neighborliness. As a general rule, the new gated communities are built for privacy and reclusiveness, although there are some exceptions. My neighborhood has broad boulevards and right-of-ways with sidewalks, open green space and we have a newsletter and community get-togethers, etc. I see all my neighbors all the time, and we are all friendly and help each other out. I think no one should expect to move down here into a hidden-away, gated community and think they are going to immediately feel at home and make a bunch of friends. One has to choose their lifestyle - many PREFER privacy and reclusiveness, and for them the gated lifestyle makes sense. As TriMT7 says, you can find these communities all over Florida, in large cities and small towns.
As to racism, sure, you can find racists in Florida, and in every other state in the union. Some cities will have more than others. Sarasota area is one of the least racist places I have ever seen here in Florida, as a city it is pretty much accepting of just about everybody.
i don't get out to socialize much, we work from home and I am busy with the kids. the comment came from a teacher from our school but in a social setting and it was flabbergasting. The circle of people in our little chat huddle didn't blink at the comment and did not get where I was coming from.
I stand by my comment that kooks are everywhere but i have never encountered casual racism like that in NY and I do worry that it's an underlying cultural norm here.
That's totally unacceptable, especially from a teacher! Again, if no one said anything about it then the racist comments/attitude it will just continue. If something is said, at the very least, maybe the person making the comments will stop and think that it's not an acceptable way to behave. If it were me, I would have had a talk with the principal of the school the teacher teaches at.
It's funny my husband is from NY and said he feels there is a ton of racism in the area of NY where he lived and he said it seems nonexistent down here. I believe it's a random thing that anyone can encounter at anytime.
I don't think it's the norm here and I don't tolerate it either.
As to racism, sure, you can find racists in Florida, and in every other state in the union.
But especially in the Confederacy.
Anyway, this happened this morning:
My neighbor Patty called me and said she had been splitting down some plants, and would we care to take some that had been split down? Sure we would.
This is the same neighbor who greeted us with brownies the third day we were here, and who leaves fresh bunches of basil on the chaise on our lanai, prompting me to devise an EXCELLENT basil turkey burger recipe.
As for the general tone of the thread, I am likely not the best to judge, as I have been living on my own for thirty years, pretty much without any roots. I have to remember that not everyone is the same, and respect the social need that people have.
One thing I can tell you, though: I go to the golf course by myself a lot, and, of course, am paired up with other golfers. Many of these people are also there on their own, and, like me, have no problem with it. I have gotten along well with these folks 100% of the time; never a bad experience. I cannot say that for any other area I have lived.
Different people have different social needs. I might be on one end of the spectrum, while someone else really REQUIRES that human interaction/community.
It should be remembered, though, that NOT needing to be so actively involved in one's community is not a crime, not a transgression, and not "worse" than the opposite. One can be friendly and congenial without wanting to start a potluck dinner group or a book club.
When it comes to equality for all, I will speak up. Columbus has one of the largest Somalian communities, as well as Indian and Spanish. I couldn't believe the things people said about them. When I had my youngest son at the hospital, I was cringing at some of the things that the nurses were saying about "them"...Unbelieveable and unacceptable...I also have an issue with the whole "white trash" thing. What about the children growing up and hearing that their whole lives? They will go through their school years thinking that they are trash. Unbelieveable..... Equality is equality for everyone. Yes, there are horrible people out there but be more sensitive to the children who have to hear these things.
You're quoting Davery and he said "I've never found it to be racist here" In fact it's much more racist in Ohio" Not sure why you included him in your comments.
Jnanner stated "It only happened once". "I guess there are kooks everywhere". The same with Racelady.
Verobeach doesn't live around here but stated it was a big problem where they lived.
I'm sure there are the occasional unwelcome incidents. It's my opinion that Sarasota is one of the tolerant cities around. I hear this over and over from many friends of different ethnic backgrounds.
North Port Jim if you're experiencing a lot of racism maybe you should change the environment you're in or the friends you keep. Dunno about you but I don't consider myself "white trash". If you tolerate racism it will never change. Guess you're willing to just settle for keeping company with racists. I don't care where I encountered it, I would put a stop to it. To be silent is to agree. Seems like we might live in the same town. Funny how things could be so different for me.
Ever heard of Rosa Parks? She stood up for what she believes in. Maybe you should read up on her.
I quoted the four posters that mentioned race problems so as not to be accused of taking the thread off topic again.
You should be thankful that you haven’t encountered the ugliness being discussed.
I agree, being silent is cowardly and implies agreement to someone’s skewed point of view, but being a newcomer from New York and working with a lot of Southerners for the first time, keeping silent (to fit in) was the only option to keep the job. The company as a whole had a lot of backwards attitudes towards minorities and woman as well.
I haven’t spent enough time in the City of Sarasota to be making comments about it. If you look back at my post, I was talking about SWF in general.
I was raised in a very diverse town, a few miles out of Manhattan. I think jnanner's term "casual racism" is a very good description of what I ran into at work and my reaction was the same as hers and Verobeach's. Basically I was shocked. I have no explanation as to why your husband hasn't encountered it.
Why does your post include a personal attack against me, once again? If you can’t comment on my posts without personally attacking me, maybe you should just ignore them. I’m just reporting what I’ve encountered.
Somehow, I don't think a racist comment from a client would prevent you from making a sale.
Last edited by Nortport Jim; 11-21-2010 at 12:01 PM..
I quoted the four posters that mentioned race problems so as not to be accused of taking the thread off topic again.
You should be thankful that you haven’t encountered the ugliness being discussed.
A agree, being silent is cowardly and implies agreement to someone’s skewed point of view, but being a newcomer from New York and working with a lot of Southerners for the first time, keeping silent (to fit in) was the only option to keep the job. The company as a whole had a lot of backwards attitudes towards minorities and woman as well.
I haven’t spent enough time in the City of Sarasota to be making comments about it. If you look back at my post, I was talking about SWF in general.
I was raised in a very diverse town, a few miles out of Manhattan. I think jnanner's term "casual racism" is a very good description of what I ran into at work and my reaction was the same as hers and Verobeach's. Basically I was shocked. I have no explanation as to why your husband hasn't encountered it.
Why does your post include a personal attack against me, once again? If you can’t comment on my posts without personally attacking me, maybe you should just ignore them. I’m just reporting what I’ve encountered.
Somehow, I don't think a racist comment from a client would prevent you from making a sale.
There was no "personal attack against you". All throughout this thread I have commented on almost everything that has been discussed and I've personally addressed each person. This was no different. I was asking you why you would not speak up and try to change the situation. If it were me I would have looked for another job or at the very least spoke up for what I believe in. Just my point of view. I welcome your point of view as I've welcomed others as well. I think everyone's concerns should be discussed and are valid.
You say I'm supposedly attacking you and then make a snide comment toward me at the end of your post. To answer your question directly. I have declined to work with various buyers or sellers for a broad range of reasons, including racism. Racism is going to happen I just don't find it a common occurrence here. For the record, my comments are about SWFL in general as well, where I was born and raised.
My response was the same to jnanner as it was to you. There was no attacking going on just giving "food for thought".
On a side note, I have even given you a positive rep point for one of your comments when you weren't attacking me or another poster. Honestly, I think you enjoy the banter as someone pointed out to me in an IM. Given the fact that you mention me passively in nearly every one of your posts it seems like you read the majority of what I have to say. I'm honored to have someone paying so much attention to me.
Verobeach doesn't live around here but stated it was a big problem where they lived.
Nope, I didn't say this. What I said is "some people are outwardly racist and you'll hear comments you haven't heard since the 70s up north."
I heard the most recent racist comment made while we were visiting DeLand, FL, a college town, nonetheless. It exists throughout Florida. People here are very unguarded in their bias against minorities. I've heard the 'n' word used more in the last 6 years than I've heard the whole time growing up in MA or while living in IL. Sometimes I think people just don't know what the word racism even means. If you're blaming a particular group of people for keeping you down, you're a racist. If you use slurs to describe someone who doesn't look like you, then it's racism, etc., etc., etc... I'm not Noah Webster or George Merriam but I'll tell you that I sure don't hear Floridians stumbling around when it comes to expressing themselves. Their messages come out loud and clear.
I lived in Florida for three years, and it was horrible. I moved there from upstate New York (which I came back to) in late 2002. The worst part was by far the people. Most everyone has no friendly disposition when it comes to strangers or even neighbors! I found that the people were an awkward mix of the most hick people you will ever meet in your life, along with the most ghetto people you will ever meet in your life, topped off by debt-burdened northerners who thought coming to the (then) relatively cheap state of Florida would be a dream come true.
I'm also gay, and unless you live in a liberal part of Miami or Orlando, that's probably not something you want your neighbors to know, let alone the less-educated 'thugs' and 'rednecks' who are all around.
Then there's the pedophiles. While it's true there are freaks everywhere, I remember always hearing about or seeing on the news a story about some girl disappearing in her neighborhood with a corresponding amber alert. Definitely a huge disparity between upstate NY and FL in terms of that.
Then it was the heat. Top-notch humidity mixed with already high temperatures = misery, especially when there's a hurricane and you're left without power for days. People try to say that hurricanes are mostly an issue of southern FL, but I lived in Volusia county and we had at least one every hurricane season that caused power outages.
Now I don't have a problem with bugs and snakes and stuff; that's just part of nature. What I do have a problem with however, is finding the nastiest, biggest roaches I have ever seen in my life in my kitchen, often enough to be annoying. If you don't like roaches, and also don't like having harmful chemicals sprayed around your house to keep such pests away, FL probably isn't for you.
Last but certainly not least are the cops. I'm not a trouble maker, but I had a few run ins with them, and they are nothing but pure A**HOLES. It's so obvious how much they love the 'power' (to bully people) that comes with their job, and they don't even pretend to be concerned with the ideals of justice and humanity that should be without saying part of a cop's job description. It's not that I have a problem with cops-three of my uncles and an aunt are/were all officers here in New York. But down in FL (and from what I hear the rest of the south in general), cops are more often than not just pieces of sh*t.
I lived in Florida for three years, and it was horrible. I moved there from upstate New York (which I came back to) in late 2002. The worst part was by far the people. Most everyone has no friendly disposition when it comes to strangers or even neighbors! I found that the people were an awkward mix of the most hick people you will ever meet in your life, along with the most ghetto people you will ever meet in your life, topped off by debt-burdened northerners who thought coming to the (then) relatively cheap state of Florida would be a dream come true.
I'm also gay, and unless you live in a liberal part of Miami or Orlando, that's probably not something you want your neighbors to know, let alone the less-educated 'thugs' and 'rednecks' who are all around.
Then there's the pedophiles. While it's true there are freaks everywhere, I remember always hearing about or seeing on the news a story about some girl disappearing in her neighborhood with a corresponding amber alert. Definitely a huge disparity between upstate NY and FL in terms of that.
Then it was the heat. Top-notch humidity mixed with already high temperatures = misery, especially when there's a hurricane and you're left without power for days. People try to say that hurricanes are mostly an issue of southern FL, but I lived in Volusia county and we had at least one every hurricane season that caused power outages.
Now I don't have a problem with bugs and snakes and stuff; that's just part of nature. What I do have a problem with however, is finding the nastiest, biggest roaches I have ever seen in my life in my kitchen, often enough to be annoying. If you don't like roaches, and also don't like having harmful chemicals sprayed around your house to keep such pests away, FL probably isn't for you.
Last but certainly not least are the cops. I'm not a trouble maker, but I had a few run ins with them, and they are nothing but pure A**HOLES. It's so obvious how much they love the 'power' (to bully people) that comes with their job, and they don't even pretend to be concerned with the ideals of justice and humanity that should be without saying part of a cop's job description. It's not that I have a problem with cops-three of my uncles and an aunt are/were all officers here in New York. But down in FL (and from what I hear the rest of the south in general), cops are more often than not just pieces of sh*t.
That's my take on the Florida life.
Good lord - I hope you moved somewhere that you found to be better for you.
There was no "personal attack against you". All throughout this thread I have commented on almost everything that has been discussed and I've personally addressed each person. This was no different. I was asking you why you would not speak up and try to change the situation. If it were me I would have looked for another job or at the very least spoke up for what I believe in. Just my point of view. I welcome your point of view as I've welcomed others as well. I think everyone's concerns should be discussed and are valid.
You say I'm supposedly attacking you and then make a snide comment toward me at the end of your post. To answer your question directly. I have declined to work with various buyers or sellers for a broad range of reasons, including racism. Racism is going to happen I just don't find it a common occurrence here. For the record, my comments are about SWFL in general as well, where I was born and raised.
My response was the same to jnanner as it was to you. There was no attacking going on just giving "food for thought".
On a side note, I have even given you a positive rep point for one of your comments when you weren't attacking me or another poster. Honestly, I think you enjoy the banter as someone pointed out to me in an IM. Given the fact that you mention me passively in nearly every one of your posts it seems like you read the majority of what I have to say. I'm honored to have someone paying so much attention to me.
Maybe my own guilty feelings about the situation back then, have left me overly sensitive to someone passing judgment on me.
Last edited by Nortport Jim; 11-21-2010 at 04:50 PM..
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