Tell me why I wouldn't want to move to Florida... (Sarasota: crime, neighborhood)
Sarasota - Bradenton - Venice areaManatee and Sarasota Counties
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Maybe my own guilty feelings about the situation back then, have left me overly sensitive to someone passing judgment on me.
No worries, it's all good. I have no issues with you at all. Like I said before, I welcome your input and think you have a lot of good and valid points. {hugs}
I think everyones thoughts and feelings are better expressed than "swept under the rug."
Vero, sorry for taking your quote out of context. It seems as though you have certainly experienced some issues here in FL.
Amsx it seems like you also encountered some definite hatred in FL. I do, however, think the other coast (Volusia county) is quite a bit different than Sarasota county. Hopefully, you're in a much more tolerant environment now.
Racism is everywhere- sometimes it just flies below the radar. In my very integrated and supposedly tolerant community up north, some very prejudiced comments were made toward my son by educators who happened to be of a different minority. I experienced and also overheard incredibly ignorant comments made in my presence by other educators at work. One set of comments was made at a school meeting in front of my principal who did nothing. I addressed it in an email discussion later in which many staff participated. The educator who made the comment was "not invited back" for the next year. So Florida is not alone in this.
We moved to Florida about 38 years ago (from the frozen north) -- and have never looked back! Sure, one can raise negatives about Florida ... and everywhere else! ... But, it seems like the Florida 'issues' (hurricanes, heat, aligators & sharks, insects, retired people, declining housing market, no construction jobs) -- all get blown out of proportion (media or people trying to justify the advantages of where they live).
We love Florida and will never move back north: HURRICANES: -- 1-2 in 25 years have hit the Space Coast -- even though the media paints it as 'hurricane alley'; HOUSING MARKET:-- yes, the decline is near the highest in the country... but, so was the growth (nobody complained about that) -- there are some great buying opportunities out there; HEAT: That's what A/C is for! ... we've even got it in cars down here!; ALIGATORS & SNAKES: Wow! - playing golf is like going to the zoo, but they don't come to the house or most other public places; INSECTS: Ok, you've got to wash the love-bugs off your car and wear mosquito-repellant, but all the stories about scorpions in your shoes and spiders in every bed ... are vastly over-rated); etc. etc. --
On the other hand: Outside activities/sports are comfortable 10-11 months out of the year (a little hot on the golf course in mid-summer, but it isn't Arizona by a long-shot; Beaches, sunshine, palm trees and 325-convertible days .... trump snow, icy roads, higher costs, etc. anytime; Relatives/friends want to come visit you ... leaving you with vacation time to go where you want to go; Eight large city demographic areas (equivalent to the major cities in any of 3-5 other states) provide plenty to do/see within easy driving distance (145 miles across the state); NO State Income Tax; .... I could go on, but you get the idea.
Anyplace is what you make of it -- there is nothing inheirantly 'bad' about anywhere ... for those who look with open minds and are realistic enough to know that only heaven is 'heaven'
We moved to Florida about 38 years ago (from the frozen north) -- and have never looked back! Sure, one can raise negatives about Florida ... and everywhere else! ... But, it seems like the Florida 'issues' (hurricanes, heat, aligators & sharks, insects, retired people, declining housing market, no construction jobs) -- all get blown out of proportion (media or people trying to justify the advantages of where they live).
We love Florida and will never move back north: HURRICANES: -- 1-2 in 25 years have hit the Space Coast -- even though the media paints it as 'hurricane alley'; HOUSING MARKET:-- yes, the decline is near the highest in the country... but, so was the growth (nobody complained about that) -- there are some great buying opportunities out there; HEAT: That's what A/C is for! ... we've even got it in cars down here!; ALIGATORS & SNAKES: Wow! - playing golf is like going to the zoo, but they don't come to the house or most other public places; INSECTS: Ok, you've got to wash the love-bugs off your car and wear mosquito-repellant, but all the stories about scorpions in your shoes and spiders in every bed ... are vastly over-rated); etc. etc. --
On the other hand: Outside activities/sports are comfortable 10-11 months out of the year (a little hot on the golf course in mid-summer, but it isn't Arizona by a long-shot; Beaches, sunshine, palm trees and 325-convertible days .... trump snow, icy roads, higher costs, etc. anytime; Relatives/friends want to come visit you ... leaving you with vacation time to go where you want to go; Eight large city demographic areas (equivalent to the major cities in any of 3-5 other states) provide plenty to do/see within easy driving distance (145 miles across the state); NO State Income Tax; .... I could go on, but you get the idea.
Anyplace is what you make of it -- there is nothing inheirantly 'bad' about anywhere ... for those who look with open minds and are realistic enough to know that only heaven is 'heaven'
This is what I like to hear! I might add my opinion here too. It's up to "you" to be happy wherever you are. Make the choice everyday when you crawl out of bed. Bad can be anywhere and good can be anywhere. Where do you want to go today?
The expression , "there is no place like home" rings true for me whenever I return from a vacation, business trip, etc.. There is something to be said about driving down a street, or getting off the airplane, that much closer to the place I/we call home. With my family and friends all within an hour of home, I do not miss a birthday, holiday, accomplishments or life's tragedies of those meaning the most to us.
I could never make Florida my permanent home unless my family and closest of friends were nearby. True happiness in life is best experienced with those that mean the most. Unfortunately for us (and many others suffering through this extended economic downturn), my kids have their careers established in Pittsburgh and it would be highly unlikely to find in Florida what they have here (secure jobs with a livable wage, health benefits, and excellent working conditions). When it comes to making a decision without family, there is no decision to make.... Florida can only be home when our family can be there with us.
Personally, I think that SoFLGal spelled out pretty well the pluses and minuses of living in Sarasota.
Having lived here for almost 10 years and having lived in nearly every other part of the U.S., I can honestly say that - from my personal standpoint - there are 2 major downsides to Sarasota, and one minor downside.
The 2 majors (both of which SoFLGal eloquently stated):
1.) job market for non-medical professionals has always been lousy - even before the economy went downhill. And that is not to say that, as a non-medical professional, you can't land a good job here - you can - but they are extremely few and far between.
That's not a product of the economic downturn - that is a product of Sarasota basing its economy around tourism and RE development - two industries that, by their nature, do not produce a lot of well-paying jobs with potential upward mobility.
The potential good news is that there seems to be a push by TPTB to attract/cultivate actual industries...we can only hope that this bears some fruit.
2.) The social scene for young professionals is pretty tepid. This can be attributed to the aforementioned professional job market note. It stands to reason that an area where most people who are <45 YO make less than $40k/year is not going to be a good place to meet a lot of like-minded young professionals.
The one minor downside that someone mentioned was the lack of seasons changing - and I "get" that. Having grown up in the midwest, I hate shoveling snow as much as anyone, but at the same time, it would be nice to not have to run the A/C in mid-October.
As to the frequent racist claims...sorry folks, but I haven't seen it. You guys must run in different circles than I do. Having spent 18 years in south Louisiana, I know what racism is, and quite frankly, you don't see it in Sarasota. Honestly.
My best guess is that the "racism" term is being thrown around by insipid people who - for whatever reason - don't like their neighbors...since they can't put their dislike of their neighbors into words that make sense, it's much easier to just call them "racists" on this board.
For instance...someone who moves here from, say, New York, and doesn't like their neighbor because the neighbor could care less about the virtues of "New York pizza" and this neighbor talks to them no differently than if they were from Cleveland, Ohio, Des Moines, Iowa, or Los Angeles, it's just easier to brand them as "racists" than it is to accept the fact that New York just isn't that special.
In my earlier post here on the raciest issue I suggested that completion for jobs comes into play. Let me give an example of what I’m referring to.
I used to work for a large general contractor who had major projects all over South Florida on both coasts. I personally worked on projects on the East coast from Marco Island to Saint Pete. I quickly learned that a large percentage of my white coworkers felt a very strong resentment towards anybody Hispanic and were more than willing to express these feeling any chance they got. If you weren’t white or black you were labeled “Mexican”. It didn’t matter what your heritage actually was.
The term “Mexican” was always uttered with disgust, usually with an adjective in front of it.
This resentment towards “Mexicans” is probably based on the fact that many Hispanics in the construction business actually are illegal immigrants who entered the country through Mexico and many immigrants (legal or not) are very willing to work for much lower wages than their white counterparts in the building trades.
Here's the example:
A small group of guys in my department would usually meet outside of our supervisor’s office each morning. The offices next door were occupied by the supervisors of the Masons and Framing Carpenters. These supervisors had a box outside of their office in which potential employees could drop off employment applications. It became a routine “joke” for one of my coworkers to sort through the job applications (when there weren’t any supervisors around). He would look for any job application that was “Mexican” and throw it in the trash. This always got chuckles and nods of encouragement from the rest of the white guys present.
As a new guy from New York, who worked hard to get to the position, I remained silent. I was an outsider peering into the world of “good old boys”.
My former employer had/has numerous projects in Sarasota, and even had a satellite office downtown when things were busier. My coworkers and the employees hired by our various subcontractors came from all over the area.
The prevailing attitude was that “Mexicans” were stealing their jobs. Now that so many of these guys have lost their job and their homes, who do you think they blame?
I think “different circles” explains the different view points in this thread quite well.
Last edited by Nortport Jim; 11-22-2010 at 05:12 AM..
Thanks for explaining. That gives us all a better idea of the situation. As I said before, my husband is also in the construction field-building automation. He works along side many Hispanics as well when coordinating the trades and all working together. I actually bought Rosetta Stone Spanish so he can learn Spanish better.
I wonder if it has to do with company mentality? Since it was coming down from supervisors maybe the rest of the gang felt as you did? They didn't approve but feared losing their job if they were vocal about it. It seems as though it was an attention thing. Kind of like the little kid who does something bad and gets a reaction-trying to be "cool". Whatever the reason, it was wrong.
I just don't get the idea of not liking someone because of a religion, race, handicap, etc. I think decisions should be based on each persons personality, ethics, etc. I'm just not sure what people are thinking who act in that manner.
SRQ, John, JG and Joey, Retired-it seems as though you all have a similar outlook on life, which probably works out well for you
Retired I totally get what you're saying. My family and I are going to Disney for Christmas. Many people have said, "how could you do that during Christmas?". My answer is that I'm with my family. As long as they're with me I'm happy.
I think, to a large degree, people make their own happiness. It's not the people or the place it's the attitude, what you make of things and how willing you are to change your situation or environment if you're not happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nortport Jim
In my earlier post here on the raciest issue I suggested that completion for jobs comes into play. Let me give an example of what I’m referring to.
I used to work for a large general contractor who had major projects all over South Florida on both coasts. I personally worked on projects on the East coast from Marco Island to Saint Pete. I quickly learned that a large percentage of my white coworkers felt a very strong resentment towards anybody Hispanic and were more than willing to express these feeling any chance they got. If you weren’t white or black you were labeled “Mexican”. It didn’t matter what your heritage actually was.
The term “Mexican” was always uttered with disgust, usually with an adjective in front of it.
This resentment towards “Mexicans” is probably based on the fact that many Hispanics in the construction business actually are illegal immigrants who entered the country through Mexico and many immigrants (legal or not) are very willing to work for much lower wages than their white counterparts in the building trades.
Here's the example:
A small group of guys in my department would usually meet outside of our supervisor’s office each morning. The offices next door were occupied by the supervisors of the Masons and Framing Carpenters. These supervisors had a box outside of their office in which potential employees could drop off employment applications. It became a routine “joke” for one of my coworkers to sort through the job applications (when there weren’t any supervisors around). He would look for any job application that was “Mexican” and throw it in the trash. This always got chuckles and nods of encouragement from the rest of the white guys present.
As a new guy from New York, who worked hard to get to the position, I remained silent. I was an outsider peering into the world of “good old boys”.
My former employer had/has numerous projects in Sarasota, and even had a satellite office downtown when things were busier. My coworkers and the employees hired by our various subcontractors came from all over the area.
The prevailing attitude was that “Mexicans” were stealing their jobs. Now that so many of these guys have lost their job and their homes, who do you think they blame?
I think “different circles” explains the different view points in this thread quite well.
Racism is everywhere- sometimes it just flies below the radar. In my very integrated and supposedly tolerant community up north, some very prejudiced comments were made toward my son by educators who happened to be of a different minority. I experienced and also overheard incredibly ignorant comments made in my presence by other educators at work. One set of comments was made at a school meeting in front of my principal who did nothing. I addressed it in an email discussion later in which many staff participated. The educator who made the comment was "not invited back" for the next year. So Florida is not alone in this.
I interviewed for a teaching job in rural central Florida a few years ago. In the interview the principal made a couple of what I considered racist remarks. After the interview he kept calling me and asking why I would not take the job. I confess I did not confront him about his comments, which I should have.
As far as the sense of community. Since we bought a condo in Sarasota, we seem to have more friends there. We get at least one call every week or two from someone in the complex asking when we are coming back down. They have gone out of their way to invite us to get-to-togethers. Even outside of our complex I found the people to be friendly. We only have a daughter and when we go to the beach there is always someone for her to play with. And in turn we usually talk with the other set of parents, which for some reason usually turn out to be local. In some cases we have made plans to meet again. I have found the people to be very friendly.
Another thing I have noticed is when I go into a store like Lowe's or Home Depot the employees actually know what they are talking about, unlike where I live in Ohio. This is probably because a large majority of employees are retireed plumbers, electricians, handymen, etc.
I was thinking of finding/starting a New Yorkers-in-SRQ meet up group. Then we'd all know how it works. I like you, you like me, the kids get along - let's BBQ!!! Maybe I could convince the development here to let us have a Block Party? You don't think so, eh? yeah, me either...
Once we get there (Sarasota or Bradenton) I would love to meet other NYers. A NYer meet-up group would be great.
I haven't been to a block party since 1978. We plan to avoid developments and gated communities like the plague if possible. As I mentioned before we also want to keep our 19' travel-trailer by our home, not in an inconvenient storage area where so many are getting broken into and damaged these days. I would love to find a neighborhood with people of mixed ages and FRIENDLY. No silent sterile elephant burial grounds where everyone is elderly. Where everyone is sitting inside watching TV day and night or where everyone is gone 5 or 6 months of the year. I believe that would depress me. I love hearing the kids laughing and playing across the road. I like cooing at babies in carriages in the local stores. I like to watch a young couple work in their garden or jog past the house. See a granny on the porch watching the world go by. Those over 55 gated communities are like ghost towns, like movie sets.
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A NYer meet-up group would be great. 
I would love to find a neighborhood with people of mixed ages and FRIENDLY. No silent sterile elephant burial grounds where everyone is elderly. Where everyone is sitting inside watching TV day and night or where everyone is gone 5 or 6 months of the year. I believe that would depress me. I love hearing the kids laughing and playing across the road. I like cooing at babies in carriages in the local stores. 
