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Ah but Cincy is not influenced by Cleveland. St. Louis is influenced by Chicago. Cincy is closer to the South in distance but also it has not much Northern influence. Probably explains why it is more conservative.
St. Louis has some similarities to Chicago but not a huge amount. Are we just talking about the city, or county too? Hamilton county which includes Cinci unlike Stl city and county that are separate has a population of 807,000. St. Louis county alone has 1 million, and then a few hundred thousand Stl city has as well. Overall Stl and Stl city are a lot bigger than Hamilton And stl city has a large minority population which explains the cities voting patterns, and we also have voter fraud but that's for another forum.
St. Louis county actually was battle ground area for republicans and democrats, up until 8 years ago the races were always close in the county for governor and president. The last two elections not as much though while the counties surrounding St. Louis county that are seeing growth are leaning more republican. I suspect white flight has a factor. People are moving to counties like St. Charles, Franklin and Jefferson Counties while north county for example is becoming more minority as they move from the city. Look at Ferguson for example was once almost entirely white at one time.
I think a better county to compare Hamilton County to is Jackson County since it includes Kansas City as part of the county.
Jefferson County MO is another interesting one that is changing politically. The population socially is conservative, very pro gun but they always voted democrat, working class type democrats who elect pro gun democrat state reps and state senators unlike the St. Louis far left fruit loop democrats. However the 2014 election Republicans made a clean sweep in both chambers except for one lone house seat in Hillsboro which shocked a lot of people. I think the Democrats nationally have become too extreme which is finally turning people off.
The state of Kentucky is very similar too and their democrats many are pro gun. It explains how their state house is still controlled by Democrats which has blocked them from passing right to work for years. Arkansas finally made the flip and republicans finally got control both chambers.
Yes I'm Republican myself but moved back to FL last year. One thing I notice about Missouri's Republicans is that they're quite a more bit to the right than the ones here in Florida. FL is becoming more blue and they're scared to pass anything extream. Like Missouri passed permit less concealed carry as well as lifetime permits which will very likely be overrode in Sept. Here in FL we can't even get open carry to pass for years now and from the lobbyist I've talked to down here no plans to introduce permit less carry which ticks me off. Heck this election some are predicting Democrats could seize power of the Florida house or come close to it because the districts were redrawn which heavily favor the democrats. All I know is if those fruit loops take control of the house and senate here in FL I'm moving back to MO lol.
St. Louis has some similarities to Chicago but not a huge amount. Are we just talking about the city, or county too? Hamilton county which includes Cinci unlike Stl city and county that are separate has a population of 807,000. St. Louis county alone has 1 million, and then a few hundred thousand Stl city has as well. Overall Stl and Stl city are a lot bigger than Hamilton And stl city has a large minority population which explains the cities voting patterns, and we also have voter fraud but that's for another forum.
St. Louis county actually was battle ground area for republicans and democrats, up until 8 years ago the races were always close in the county for governor and president. The last two elections not as much though while the counties surrounding St. Louis county that are seeing growth are leaning more republican. I suspect white flight has a factor. People are moving to counties like St. Charles, Franklin and Jefferson Counties while north county for example is becoming more minority as they move from the city. Look at Ferguson for example was once almost entirely white at one time.
I think a better county to compare Hamilton County to is Jackson County since it includes Kansas City as part of the county.
Jefferson County MO is another interesting one that is changing politically. The population socially is conservative, very pro gun but they always voted democrat, working class type democrats who elect pro gun democrat state reps and state senators unlike the St. Louis far left fruit loop democrats. However the 2014 election Republicans made a clean sweep in both chambers except for one lone house seat in Hillsboro which shocked a lot of people. I think the Democrats nationally have become too extreme which is finally turning people off.
The state of Kentucky is very similar too and their democrats many are pro gun. It explains how their state house is still controlled by Democrats which has blocked them from passing right to work for years. Arkansas finally made the flip and republicans finally got control both chambers.
Yes I'm Republican myself but moved back to FL last year. One thing I notice about Missouri's Republicans is that they're quite a more bit to the right than the ones here in Florida. FL is becoming more blue and they're scared to pass anything extream. Like Missouri passed permit less concealed carry as well as lifetime permits which will very likely be overrode in Sept. Here in FL we can't even get open carry to pass for years now and from the lobbyist I've talked to down here no plans to introduce permit less carry which ticks me off. Heck this election some are predicting Democrats could seize power of the Florida house or come close to it because the districts were redrawn which heavily favor the democrats. All I know is if those fruit loops take control of the house and senate here in FL I'm moving back to MO lol.
I think you have to stick to STL city here. Once you start moving into far West/SW St. Louis County, St. Charles, Jefferson, Franklin, Lincoln, it's a completely different area with different influences and culture.
I think you have to stick to STL city here. Once you start moving into far West/SW St. Louis County, St. Charles, Jefferson, Franklin, Lincoln, it's a completely different area with different influences and culture.
Totally agree. Now if this were 50 years ago it would be different because St. Louis city was a lot more populated while Stl county was a lot less populated than it is today.
Heck back in the late 1800s stl county was pretty rural still. Stl city doesn't hold the sway at the state level as it once did. Especially since the last census republicans got to redraw the state house and senate districts the power has now shifted to SW Missouri.
I agree about that too. Even when you get out to around Eureka and Pacific even out there you notice a bit of Ozarks influence and a bit less of a grip from Stl city.
St. Charles County for example has been growing big time.
Sorry I got confused. Usually when people talk St. Louis they mean stl city and county I'm used to.
St. Louis and the state of Missouri are both overall Midwestern. St. Louis is down to the line Midwestern while the southern third of Missouri is in the South and the rest is Midwestern. Louisville on the other hand is Southern with Midwestern influences, the Cincy suburbs in Kentucky are entirely Midwestern, and the rest of Kentucky is solidly Southern.
St. Louis and the state of Missouri are both overall Midwestern. St. Louis is down to the line Midwestern while the southern third of Missouri is in the South and the rest is Midwestern. Louisville on the other hand is Southern with Midwestern influences, the Cincy suburbs in Kentucky are entirely Midwestern, and the rest of Kentucky is solidly Southern.
The Cincy suburbs are also a mixture of midwestern and southern. Since the KY counties in the Cincinnati metro area include some far flung areas that are more Appalachian in character overall instead of being solidly Midwest owing in part to historical migration patterns via the Great Migration that resulted in large numbers of people moving in from rural areas of central Appalachia (eastern KY, WV, eastern TN, etc).
St. Louis and the state of Missouri are both overall Midwestern. St. Louis is down to the line Midwestern while the southern third of Missouri is in the South and the rest is Midwestern. Louisville on the other hand is Southern with Midwestern influences, the Cincy suburbs in Kentucky are entirely Midwestern, and the rest of Kentucky is solidly Southern.
For the umpteenth time, this is not nearly as black and white as you make it.
How is a town not even 70 miles NE of a wealthy Louisville suburb like La Grange (Florence) squarely Midwest and La Grange is squarely southern? No one is buying it. Ever seen the "Florence Y'all" sign in NKY suburb of Cincinnati?
The fact is, St Louis, like its cousins of Cincinnati and Louisville, are old, river, industrial towns with as much of an inland river city culture as they have "south" or "midwest" I am not sure that anyone is denying Louisville is southern; it is...but it is also very Midwestern and with the growth of the south, Louisville has embraced the south as that is why is "hot" right now. Its no coincidence that Louisville is growing faster than these other old river cities because of it.
St. Louis and the state of Missouri are both overall Midwestern. St. Louis is down to the line Midwestern while the southern third of Missouri is in the South and the rest is Midwestern. Louisville on the other hand is Southern with Midwestern influences, the Cincy suburbs in Kentucky are entirely Midwestern, and the rest of Kentucky is solidly Southern.
A better way to put it is the southern quarter, about 25 percent of Missouri modern day is Southern, and the other quarter of the southern half is a transition zone sorta like southern Indiana and Southern Illinois that has a mix of Midwestern and southern.
US 50 is a good dividing line between Midwestern/lower Midwestern, and south of US 50 is the beginnings of the transition zone. Most on this site agree to that. Makes Missouri overall 50 percent Midwestern, 25 percent a mix, and 25 percent southern or if you really want to get technical and include the southern aspects of the transition zone then 62.5 percent Midwestern, and 37.5 percent southern.
Either way Missouri overall is a Midwest state with north of US 50 Midwestern and south of it either transition zone or southern once you get further south in the state.
Missouri has to be one of the most unique states in the country due to it's location. Southern or Midwestern depending on the area you're in.
For the umpteenth time, this is not nearly as black and white as you make it.
How is a town not even 70 miles NE of a wealthy Louisville suburb like La Grange (Florence) squarely Midwest and La Grange is squarely southern? No one is buying it. Ever seen the "Florence Y'all" sign in NKY suburb of Cincinnati?
The fact is, St Louis, like its cousins of Cincinnati and Louisville, are old, river, industrial towns with as much of an inland river city culture as they have "south" or "midwest" I am not sure that anyone is denying Louisville is southern; it is...but it is also very Midwestern and with the growth of the south, Louisville has embraced the south as that is why is "hot" right now. Its no coincidence that Louisville is growing faster than these other old river cities because of it.
I don't see much about Louisville that turns me on. If I lived in St. Louis still, moving to Louisville wouldn't come to mind. Weather is nearly identical to St. Louis and it seems they get more ice storms around there too. I just don't see nothing spectacular Louisville that would convince me to move there. I'd rather live in a big Texas City with slightly warmer weather and more stuff to do.
Yes I'm Republican myself but moved back to FL last year. One thing I notice about Missouri's Republicans is that they're quite a more bit to the right than the ones here in Florida. FL is becoming more blue and they're scared to pass anything extream. Like Missouri passed permit less concealed carry as well as lifetime permits which will very likely be overrode in Sept. Here in FL we can't even get open carry to pass for years now and from the lobbyist I've talked to down here no plans to introduce permit less carry which ticks me off. Heck this election some are predicting Democrats could seize power of the Florida house or come close to it because the districts were redrawn which heavily favor the democrats. All I know is if those fruit loops take control of the house and senate here in FL I'm moving back to MO lol.
You're probably noticing something I've begun to realize. In red-leaning purple states, Dems have to be more moderate. In blue-leaning purple states, the Repubs have to be more moderate. Missosuri is a red-leaning state and could be called a red state at this point.
The decline of the Dems in Missouri is directly attributable to the newfound GOP dominance in StL and KC suburbs. There are still vestiges of Democratic influence though. St. Louis Republicans are the sole reason MO has resisted right-to-work. I could eventually see St. Charles, Clay, and Greene County electing Dems, but it will take a while for the demographics to change.
Politics, are in my opinion, the most southern characteristic of Missouri. If it wasn't for our two metros, Missourah would resemble Mississippi and Arkansas. The resemblance would extend far beyond politics as well.
You're probably noticing something I've begun to realize. In red-leaning purple states, Dems have to be more moderate. In blue-leaning purple states, the Repubs have to be more moderate. Missosuri is a red-leaning state and could be called a red state at this point.
The decline of the Dems in Missouri is directly attributable to the newfound GOP dominance in StL and KC suburbs. There are still vestiges of Democratic influence though. St. Louis Republicans are the sole reason MO has resisted right-to-work. I could eventually see St. Charles, Clay, and Greene County electing Dems, but it will take a while for the demographics to change.
Politics, are in my opinion, the most southern characteristic of Missouri. If it wasn't for our two metros, Missourah would resemble Mississippi and Arkansas. The resemblance would extend far beyond politics as well.
Well there are a couple reasons for that. One thing is many of those republican seats for example like in Jefferson County were always held by conservative Democrats. Pro Gun, Pro Life, anti gay marriage type but differed on labor issues but usually vote with Republicans with most issues other than union/labor. Kentucky is similar with their state house being controlled by moderate to conservative democrats who again like above also pro gun, pro life, but are very pro union which is the reason Kentucky can't pass right to work still is because the house keeps blocking it. It might change this election if republicans can seize the house but that still might be tuff. A lot of people were shocked Jefferson county went heavily republican in 2014 at the state level. I'm thinking it is part of the overall trend the democrats have just got too extreme on the gun issues, gay marriage etc. There is one seat left in the Hillsboro area a lone democrat represents.
I don't see St. Charles going democrat though except the far eastern part that isn't too far from Stl City. I will say the republicans from St. Charles are more moderate though, country club type as Rush Limbaugh uses that term before to describe ones who are not super conservative. If anything I see St. Charles going more republican. A lot of those wealthy people moving out there vote republican for fiscal reasons.
St. Louis county actually used to be more republican at one time. KC suburbs are more conservative than Stl.
Greene County I think will overall always stay republican I think but I can see Democrats picking up another seat or two because it keeps growing around the Springfield area. In a way I would consider Springfield to be a sunbelt, new south city as it's seeing a lot of growth.
But to explain why it's shifting to the right is also because the way the house and senate districts are set up now. When the last two census were done Republicans controlled the house so when they drew the districts up they did so to favor republicans. Just like the Missouri Democrats did when they controlled the house.
The way the districts are heavily favor SW and South Central MO. Areas that are the most conservative and heavily republican areas of Missouri. If I'm correct there are 65 house races in Missouri this election that have no democrat opponent. Could explain the more southern look to our politics is because those areas of the state wield the most power now.
Regardless though it's basically impossible now for the democrats to ever get control of the house or senate in Missouri now. Their main goal is to lower the super majorities to make it harder to override vetoes.
Also notice the governors races ever since One Term Bob vetoed ccw you notice Jay Nixon and Chris Koster are not running on anti gun platform. Even though Nixon his second term has turned more anti gun. Chris Koster supports SB656 and didn't think Nixon should veto it. As I previously state the Koster campaign was scared of Nixon possibly vetoing 656.
With Amendment 5 passing with 61 percent of the vote in 2014 it would be foolish to run being anti gun for governor.
I think this election Missouri might have a republican governor. Especially if Hillary tanks and lower democrat turnout. She is dropping in the polls now.
If Missouri elected their governors during midterm elections, we'd have a republican governor right now due to lower democrat turnout in those years.
But yes MO behaves more southern at the state level with politics when you compare it with the gun issues, especially abortion issues and gay rights, gay marriage. The republicans each year say they refuse to pass any gay rights protection bills, and in 2004 we saw how Missourian's heavily voted against gay marriage.
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