Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Louisville will never compete with cities line Cincinnati, Nashville, Indy, or St. Louis. It's simply not a big enough city.
I am just not buying this argument. All are top 35 regions. You could maybe make an argument, if STL ever grows and crosses the 3 million CSA, then it is a "big city" . But the rest of these cities are all peers in one degree or another. They compete especially for conventions, but also for business, tourism, etc.
here are the CSA rankings.
I think most people would group CSAs in the 1-3 million range in the same general class. You could potentially argue that within that class, there are the Cincinnati and Indianapolis which are in a higher economic stratosphere.
Yet, when it comes to day to day living, you notice VERY little difference in any of these cities! I have either lived or spent extensive time in all 4.
35 Louisville/Jefferson County–Elizabethtown–Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 1,504,559 1,459,911
31 Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro, TN Combined Statistical Area 1,951,644 1,788,434
28 Cincinnati-Wilmington-Maysville, OH-KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 2,216,735 2,174,110
26 Indianapolis-Carmel-Muncie, IN Combined Statistical Area 2,372,530 2,266,569
20 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL Combined Statistical Area 2,916,447 2,892,497
I think these 4 cities really run the "gamit"of southern. STL is maybe 20-40% southern. Cincy is probably 30-40%. Louisville is 40-60%. Nashville is 100% southern, but also new south as well (new south cities can seem only half southern sometimes). The reason you all think Louisivlle is southern is almost NONE of you have been here, and if you had, it was years ago. You see what is protrayed in media and TV, and you stereotype the state of KY. Louisville is technically in KY, but literally nothing like Kentucky.
And another thing about STL....Clayton has infinitely more development than anything in STL city. Unlike in these other cities where the development is going on in the traditional urban core
I am just not buying this argument. All are top 35 regions. You could maybe make an argument, if STL ever grows and crosses the 3 million CSA, then it is a "big city" . But the rest of these cities are all peers in one degree or another. They compete especially for conventions, but also for business, tourism, etc.
here are the CSA rankings.
I think most people would group CSAs in the 1-3 million range in the same general class. You could potentially argue that within that class, there are the Cincinnati and Indianapolis which are in a higher economic stratosphere.
Yet, when it comes to day to day living, you notice VERY little difference in any of these cities! I have either lived or spent extensive time in all 4.
35 Louisville/Jefferson County–Elizabethtown–Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 1,504,559 1,459,911
31 Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro, TN Combined Statistical Area 1,951,644 1,788,434
28 Cincinnati-Wilmington-Maysville, OH-KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 2,216,735 2,174,110
26 Indianapolis-Carmel-Muncie, IN Combined Statistical Area 2,372,530 2,266,569
20 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL Combined Statistical Area 2,916,447 2,892,497
I think these 4 cities really run the "gamit"of southern. STL is maybe 20-40% southern. Cincy is probably 30-40%. Louisville is 40-60%. Nashville is 100% southern, but also new south as well (new south cities can seem only half southern sometimes). The reason you all think Louisivlle is southern is almost NONE of you have been here, and if you had, it was years ago. You see what is protrayed in media and TV, and you stereotype the state of KY. Louisville is technically in KY, but literally nothing like Kentucky.
The transition zone starts south of St. Louis. As a couple other posters pointed out there, sure there are still some traces of southern left, but it's not even enough to put St. Louis in the transition zone. Sure if you look at the entire large Stl CSA sure parts of it are in the northern parts of the transition zone, but St. Louis the town is not in the transition zone. The transition zone begins south of St. Louis and about 70 miles due south of St. Louis is around where the transition zone ends and it's pretty much southern then.
Us 50 in MO is the dividing line of where the transition zone begins (mix of Midwest and south) and then when you get into the southern quarter of the state about 20 miles north of highway 60 on south it's pretty much all southern culture then.
St. Louis is a river, lower Midwest city in modern times. The southern half of the state is a transition zone of both south and Midwest culture like Southern Indiana, far southern IL and the southern quarter of the state is truly southern without much Midwest influence at all. That gives you an overall lower Midwest state MO is today. 50 percent Midwest, 25 percent a hybrid of Midwest south mix, and 25 percent that is truly southern. It does make MO the most southern influence Midwest state though as a decent chunk of Missouri is located in the south.
The transition zone starts south of St. Louis. As a couple other posters pointed out there, sure there are still some traces of southern left, but it's not even enough to put St. Louis in the transition zone. Sure if you look at the entire large Stl CSA sure parts of it are in the northern parts of the transition zone, but St. Louis the town is not in the transition zone. The transition zone begins south of St. Louis and about 70 miles due south of St. Louis is around where the transition zone ends and it's pretty much southern then.
Us 50 in MO is the dividing line of where the transition zone begins (mix of Midwest and south) and then when you get into the southern quarter of the state about 20 miles north of highway 60 on south it's pretty much all southern culture then.
St. Louis is a river, lower Midwest city in modern times. The southern half of the state is a transition zone of both south and Midwest culture like Southern Indiana, far southern IL and the southern quarter of the state is truly southern without much Midwest influence at all. That gives you an overall lower Midwest state MO is today. 50 percent Midwest, 25 percent a hybrid of Midwest south mix, and 25 percent that is truly southern. It does make MO the most southern influence Midwest state though as a decent chunk of Missouri is located in the south.
I disagree. The southern transition starts in St Louis county. ever been to the river towns south of STL which are very much a part of metro STL? Many of them have tons of business named southern too like Imperial Mo, I remember seeing a couple banks named southern bank on their main drag. Driving US 61 out of STL feels very similar to driving US31W out of Louisville, where the Midwest starts to become very southern! Tons of sothern accents, "country cooking" the whole nine yards
I am just not buying this argument. All are top 35 regions. You could maybe make an argument, if STL ever grows and crosses the 3 million CSA, then it is a "big city" . But the rest of these cities are all peers in one degree or another. They compete especially for conventions, but also for business, tourism, etc.
here are the CSA rankings.
I think most people would group CSAs in the 1-3 million range in the same general class. You could potentially argue that within that class, there are the Cincinnati and Indianapolis which are in a higher economic stratosphere.
Yet, when it comes to day to day living, you notice VERY little difference in any of these cities! I have either lived or spent extensive time in all 4.
35 Louisville/Jefferson County–Elizabethtown–Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 1,504,559 1,459,911
31 Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro, TN Combined Statistical Area 1,951,644 1,788,434
28 Cincinnati-Wilmington-Maysville, OH-KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 2,216,735 2,174,110
26 Indianapolis-Carmel-Muncie, IN Combined Statistical Area 2,372,530 2,266,569
20 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL Combined Statistical Area 2,916,447 2,892,497
I think these 4 cities really run the "gamit"of southern. STL is maybe 20-40% southern. Cincy is probably 30-40%. Louisville is 40-60%. Nashville is 100% southern, but also new south as well (new south cities can seem only half southern sometimes). The reason you all think Louisivlle is southern is almost NONE of you have been here, and if you had, it was years ago. You see what is protrayed in media and TV, and you stereotype the state of KY. Louisville is technically in KY, but literally nothing like Kentucky.
And another thing about STL....Clayton has infinitely more development than anything in STL city. Unlike in these other cities where the development is going on in the traditional urban core
That speaks volumes IMO (and yes I am familiar with the NGA plans...but that won't save north STL)
I've been to Louisville and It struck me as being very Southern. Are you calling me an idiot? You vastly understate Louisville's Southerness. Louisville is more like 70-80 percent Southern. Culturally and linguistically it is 100 percent Southern. As far as being a major city you have to have a population at or very close to 2 million. Louisville is far off that mark. Louisville nothing like Kentucky is also not true. It is 33 percent Southern Baptist minimum and linguistically and culturally it is also like Kentucky. You just don't give up. Nashville doesn't run the gamit of Southern at all it is 100 percent Southern. St. Louis and Cincinnati don't either. You live in a delusional world where Louisville is a lower Midwest city...IT ISN'T. Give it a rest already. You've lost. AGAIN. Where is your army of supporters? As far as I can tell it's just you. I have a whole army of people backing my opinion. Louisville is a small insignificant Southern city with Midwest influences. It doesn't compare to the other cities you've listed, not only in its size but because of a lack of the following: cultural attractions, highly ranked institutions and universities, major sports franchises, etc. Even Austin is 2 million people. Louisville's only attractions are college basketball, not a major sport, the Louisville Cardinals, a MINOR league sports team, and the Kentucky Derby. Nothing else is especially unique about it. Your Louisville homerism is just as outrageous as the Clevelanders in this forum.
I am just not buying this argument. All are top 35 regions. You could maybe make an argument, if STL ever grows and crosses the 3 million CSA, then it is a "big city" . But the rest of these cities are all peers in one degree or another. They compete especially for conventions, but also for business, tourism, etc.
here are the CSA rankings.
I think most people would group CSAs in the 1-3 million range in the same general class. You could potentially argue that within that class, there are the Cincinnati and Indianapolis which are in a higher economic stratosphere.
Yet, when it comes to day to day living, you notice VERY little difference in any of these cities! I have either lived or spent extensive time in all 4.
35 Louisville/Jefferson County–Elizabethtown–Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 1,504,559 1,459,911
31 Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro, TN Combined Statistical Area 1,951,644 1,788,434
28 Cincinnati-Wilmington-Maysville, OH-KY-IN Combined Statistical Area 2,216,735 2,174,110
26 Indianapolis-Carmel-Muncie, IN Combined Statistical Area 2,372,530 2,266,569
20 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL Combined Statistical Area 2,916,447 2,892,497
I think these 4 cities really run the "gamit"of southern. STL is maybe 20-40% southern. Cincy is probably 30-40%. Louisville is 40-60%. Nashville is 100% southern, but also new south as well (new south cities can seem only half southern sometimes). The reason you all think Louisivlle is southern is almost NONE of you have been here, and if you had, it was years ago. You see what is protrayed in media and TV, and you stereotype the state of KY. Louisville is technically in KY, but literally nothing like Kentucky.
And another thing about STL....Clayton has infinitely more development than anything in STL city. Unlike in these other cities where the development is going on in the traditional urban core
That speaks volumes IMO (and yes I am familiar with the NGA plans...but that won't save north STL)
I don't think I'd agree with that at all. Louisville to me fits more into the group with Oklahoma City, Birmingham, Richmond, etc. Louisville has zero professional sports teams. That's a big deal in the national relevance of a city, for better or worse. Louisville airport also trails the cities you named by a huge margin in passenger volume. That's another big deal. And if we're ranking those metros by economic power, STL is at the top above Indy and Cincy, and Louisville is again at the bottom. STL ranks 21st in metro region GDP, Louisville is 48th. STL's GDP is 2.5x that of Louisville's. Another big deal.
You vastly understate Louisville's Southerness. Louisville is more like 70-80 percent Southern. Culturally and linguistically it is 100 percent Southern. As far as being a major city you have to have a population at or very close to 2 million. Louisville is far off that mark. Louisville nothing like Kentucky is also not true. It is 33 percent Southern Baptist minimum and linguistically and culturally it is also like Kentucky. You just don't give up. Nashville doesn't run the gamit of Southern at all it is 100 percent Southern. St. Louis and Cincinnati don't either. You live in a delusional world where Louisville is a lower Midwest city...IT ISN'T. Give it a rest already. You've lost. AGAIN. Where is your army of supporters? As far as I can tell it's just you. I have a whole army of people backing my opinion. Louisville is a small insignificant Southern city with Midwest influences. It doesn't compare to the other cities you've listed, not only in its size but because of a lack of the following: cultural attractions, highly ranked institutions and universities, major sports franchises, etc. Even Austin is 2 million people. Louisville's only attractions are college basketball, not a major sport, the Louisville Cardinals, a MINOR league sports team, and the Kentucky Derby. Nothing else is especially unique about it. Your Louisville homerism is just as outrageous as the Clevelanders in this forum.
No, this is a ridiculous bash of a great city that you are giving. There is nothing more in a metro area of 1.3 million but a small college town? You know nothing honestly. NO ONE here is buying your attempts to make Louisville into Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
I can just as easily say there is nothing in STL but a baseball team and a huge ghetto where there are still race riots. Now, who is southern? Enjoy the decline in STL. STL is NOT a major city, and it has very southern elements, thus, all the RACIAL PROBLEMS in STL that make national headlines.
You are so dead wrong about cultural amenities in Louisville that your clear bias is shining through. You haven't been to a single cultural amenity in Louisville, and have no idea about any of them. So just plead ignorance on it, ok?
I don't think I'd agree with that at all. Louisville to me fits more into the group with Oklahoma City, Birmingham, Richmond, etc. Louisville has zero professional sports teams. That's a big deal in the national relevance of a city, for better or worse. Louisville airport also trails the cities you named by a huge margin in passenger volume. That's another big deal.
But it exceeds all of them, probably combined, in Shipping Volume. It is one of the biggest in the World. And THAT is a big deal. STL airport is also small and nothing to write home about. What you guys are not wanting to hear is that STL has some southern elements...and that is ok!
I don't disagree that Louisville is a peer of Richmond and OKC....but places like STL are NOT in a different stratosphere. And being a few hours apart, connected on the same interstate, and being old 19th century german and irish river towns, largely catholic, they share ALOT in common. As of Census 2000, Louisville was way more Catholic than it is today. Why? Louisville had the worst abuse scandaals in the USA and also paid the largest lawsuit sums which devastated the local catholic community. Estimates are 100,000 people in metro Louisville left the Catholic churches for these protestant mega churches like Southeast Christian at that point.
No, this is a ridiculous bash of a great city that you are giving. There is nothing more in a metro area of 1.3 million but a small college town? You know nothing honestly. NO ONE here is buying your attempts to make Louisville into Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
I can just as easily say there is nothing in STL but a baseball team and a huge ghetto where there are still race riots. Now, who is southern? Enjoy the decline in STL. STL is NOT a major city, and it has very southern elements, thus, all the RACIAL PROBLEMS in STL that make national headlines.
You are so dead wrong about cultural amenities in Louisville that your clear bias is shining through. You haven't been to a single cultural amenity in Louisville, and have no idea about any of them. So just plead ignorance on it, ok?
No I am not pleading ignorance because I've been there. St. Louis also has a hockey team you left that one out. And only North and East St. Louis are ghetto. Race riots are occurring everywhere do you read the news. I think you're the one who needs to plead ignorance believing St. Louis is one big ghetto. Anyone who's ever been here knows that's false. St. Louis not a major city lmao it's metro is in the top twenty in the country. As far as very Southern characteristics there are little to none. You know nothing about this city and you want Louisville to be just like other Midwest cities so you overstate the Southern influences to make Louisville Southern. It's comical to watch you struggle.
I don't think I'd agree with that at all. Louisville to me fits more into the group with Oklahoma City, Birmingham, Richmond, etc. Louisville has zero professional sports teams. That's a big deal in the national relevance of a city, for better or worse. Louisville airport also trails the cities you named by a huge margin in passenger volume. That's another big deal. And if we're ranking those metros by economic power, STL is at the top above Indy and Cincy, and Louisville is again at the bottom. STL ranks 21st in metro region GDP, Louisville is 48th. STL's GDP is 2.5x that of Louisville's. Another big deal.
No I am not pleading ignorance because I've been there. St. Louis also has a hockey team you left that one out. And only North and East St. Louis are ghetto. Race riots are occurring everywhere do you read the news. I think you're the one who needs to plead ignorance believing St. Louis is one big ghetto. Anyone who's ever been here knows that's false. St. Louis not a major city lmao it's metro is in the top twenty in the country. As far as very Southern characteristics there are little to none. You know nothing about this city and you want Louisville to be just like other Midwest cities so you overstate the Southern influences to make Louisville Southern. It's comical to watch you struggle.
To be honest, if Louisville were more southern, it would be growing faster than it is. It is growing steady, but if it were "southern" in a tax free state like TN, it would be growing at 10% like Nashville. For now it is doing 3.5%. That is surely better than the 0.8% in STL.
That said, there are so many projects announced or U/C in Louisville that it will be a whole new city in 5 years. Just today another midrise, 100 million apartment project announced for downtown...this is in addition to the 1000 more units just announced in the last WEEK! There are literally thousands of hotels rooms and apartments under development here. The city has more positive national press in 2 weeks than STL does in a decade.
Your argument is falling way short. Why are celebrity chefs like Guy Fieri and Bobby Flay opening in Louisville? Your "small" culturally devoid southern town argument is falling flat on its face.
So again, I totally agree Louisville is much more like a Richmond, VA, who is probably its closest peer.
Yet, being an old lower midwest/upper southern, transitional river city in a border state, with an old river city catholic culture.....it is SO much like STL.
BTW, Cicinnati, STL, and Louisivlle are the ONLY metro areas of their size where locals ask "where did you go to school?" and they are talking about which Catholic all boys or girls high school!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
