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Old 02-19-2020, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Fuquay Varina
6,454 posts, read 9,820,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldgorilla View Post
Japanese manufacturers disagree. The fear that employees at suppliers will be left with no jobs:

"For suppliers that depend on these components, and their employees, this is a matter of life and death."
They will just change what they supply, its the way it works. EV, Gas, Diesel etc, all need parts to be supplied. Just because there is a battery instead of a gas tank doesn't eliminate the need for other parts or components.
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:50 PM
 
1,065 posts, read 472,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTLightning View Post
They will just change what they supply, its the way it works. EV, Gas, Diesel etc, all need parts to be supplied. Just because there is a battery instead of a gas tank doesn't eliminate the need for other parts or components.
I'm not sure if you understood the article. Less parts = less supplies.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:02 AM
 
Location: In the heights
37,156 posts, read 39,441,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTLightning View Post
They will just change what they supply, its the way it works. EV, Gas, Diesel etc, all need parts to be supplied. Just because there is a battery instead of a gas tank doesn't eliminate the need for other parts or components.
To some extent that’s true, but an EV does have far fewer components than a diesel or gas car. There’s little need for a transmission or an exhaust system and motors have far fewer moving components than and engine and its drivetrain. It’s also not all that easy for some parts suppliers to simply transition into making a wholly different parts. Certainly there are a lot of shared components though like airbags, power windows, media systems, etc.
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Old 02-20-2020, 10:06 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,054,943 times
Reputation: 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
Reports note that Apple has transitioned the Project Titan team from building a car to developing an autonomous system that they can sell to other car makers. Hundreds of jobs were shed on the project in 2019.

yeah that was sad to hear. Knowing Apple, they would only mass produce something if they were confident it was the best product on the market and the best quality product. But building a car is a much more intensive manufacturing process than making an iPhone, and reliability issues can sink Apple's sterling reputation quickly.

I'm sure Apple can produce an awesome car, but it would be next to impossible for them to produce a mass market vehicle in the 40k range without losing money on each car.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,067,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Hospitality View Post
Interesting insight on how Tesla's Japanese competitors feel about the technology Elon has brought to the market.
"One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it.""

"Industry insiders expect such technology to take hold around 2025 at the earliest. That means Tesla beat its rivals by six years."
- https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Aut...Toyota-and-VW2
Its just reverse engineered flying saucer technology.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,382,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Building an EV is actually not hard at all. There are dozens of companies in China building EVs and succeeded but few will get traction without a nameplate. Even Dyson was supposed to build an EV but pulled out because they don't have the financial backing to build an ecosystem around it.

Which is why I still believe that Apple will build their own EV. The have the manufacturing experience to do it and EV is simply a bigger iPhone with moving parts. They don't want to be forced to pay a ransom by Tesla if they are forced to license integration with Tesla's onboard system. Tesla will have their own app store and who knows they may come out with their own Android phone. Elon has been building an ecosystem around the Tesla brand.
If you think Tesla is just a bigger iPhone - you are delusional. Apple tech is not so different than any other phone, it is their ease of use that makes them popular.

Also it is more the other way, Tesla doesn't want to pay the cost to integrate apple car play into Tesla. BTW - Apple was not allowed on government networks for quit a while, they had some issues that were not well known.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:11 PM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,718,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
If you think Tesla is just a bigger iPhone - you are delusional. Apple tech is not so different than any other phone, it is their ease of use that makes them popular.

Also it is more the other way, Tesla doesn't want to pay the cost to integrate apple car play into Tesla. BTW - Apple was not allowed on government networks for quit a while, they had some issues that were not well known.
If you look at the tear downs of Tesla, the car is very simple. 1/3 less parts than a Corolla. It is closer to a bigger iPhone because it has system on a chip inside the car that's the special sauce. It can drive without the computer and it becomes just a regular EV in limp mode. The computer is what makes a Tesla a Tesla that is why it is more closer to a building an iPhone. Their cars are not much different than other EVs, it's all in the onboard computer and software.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,382,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC211 View Post
Toyota and VW 6 years behind, eh?

Can’t remember the last time I saw a Golf or Camry just explode into a ball of fire for no apparent reason...

If I sound like a Tesla “hater” - that’s because I’m just about “there”.

I like my toast dry, and my coffee black. No avocado, no venti swirl mochachokabullsh...
OK - here is a few Golfs - https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...fire&FORM=IGRE
VW recall for fire risk https://citizensreport.org/2015/01/0...ay-catch-fire/

Toyota Camry recalls https://abc13.com/1043601/ or https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toy...fire-risk.html

When a Tesla catches fire it is news, when a ICE catches fire, just another car. More ICE cars catch fire than EVs.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,382,615 times
Reputation: 8629
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
If you look at the tear downs of Tesla, the car is very simple. 1/3 less parts than a Corolla. It is closer to a bigger iPhone because it has system on a chip inside the car that's the special sauce. It can drive without the computer and it becomes just a regular EV in limp mode. The computer is what makes a Tesla a Tesla that is why it is more closer to a building an iPhone. Their cars are not much different than other EVs, it's all in the onboard computer and software.
Making a cell phone is very different than a vehicle and apple doesn't make their phones anyway - phone manufacture is common technology, EVs manufacturing is still in its infancy. Equating a cell phone to an EV is way over simplification and ignores the Tesla advantages - it is the integration and drive train as much as the electronics. Porsche, Audi, VW group spent billions on EV development and still significantly less efficient - much of the advantage is battery, battery management, inverter and motor technology.

Don't discount the difficulty of integration and control systems - a cell and car have very different technologies and programming. Managing RTOS (Real-Time Operating System), that is required for cars and planes, not for cell phones is much more complicated than developing an app for a cell. You can't use a standard apple system as a RTOS in a car without major changes.

Last edited by ddeemo; 02-20-2020 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 02-20-2020, 03:30 PM
 
1,740 posts, read 1,270,450 times
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The moral of the story (which this article points out only one piece of the puzzle) is that Tesla has many advantages to conventional automakers.

Superior software development talent.
Superior chip design talent.
Superior machine learning talent.
Superior model of vertical integration during disruptive period of change from ICE to EV.
Superior battery prices and specs.

Conventional auto has benefits of
Superior engine experience (whoops! don't need that)
Superior putting together things from a wide range of suppliers)

Unfortunately that last point, while true, is simply not enough of a cost advantage during this transition time.
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