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I read "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" by Schiller about 10 years ago. It is about the Jon Benet murder. It's a very detailed book. The research is excellent and I recommend the book if you are interested in the story.
The parents were involved in some way. There were no footprints in the snow-remember?
I guess these Atlanta folks didn't think of snow
Oh, excuse me--there was a footprint of some kind perhaps several found beneath the window.
We have snow from time to time in Atlanta. CNN is headquartered here and we were able to get the news from Denver--yes, it snowed in Denver that Christmas.
I apologize--but today hasn't been the best. Someone didn't feel my directions were up to standards on two occasions and someone didn't like my choice of a thread topic and I know I am dangerously close to a 'Warning' for speaking of this.
This case is of no real interest to me anymore. If those with training, funding and all the resources of the US couldn't solve it then I know I cannot.
For weeks I listened and thought this was too horrible for any human to bear. To lose your child in a sadistic murder and then be suspected of the crime.
Patsy Ramsey's sister had a few things to say. We have all kinds of demented and bizarre crimes in GA--Atlanta is where federal cases are tried--I could compile a list of horrifying cases--the bombing of Centennial Park/Richard Jewel/'96 Olympics--falsely accused and exonerated and many more--'just because' Patsy was from GA and I am from GA that is not the reason that I don't think she brutally murdered her child or is a person capable of sick and perverted acts.
The woman survived ovarian cancer for one thing--her daughter was her life.
There are still mothers like that everywhere and there should be a lot more.
I apologize--but today hasn't been the best. Someone didn't feel my directions were up to standards on two occasions and someone didn't like my choice of a thread topic and I know I am dangerously close to a 'Warning' for speaking of this.
There is no reason to apologize, TAH.
I can't see where you have crossed any lines in this thread.
You have strong feelings about the case. That's normal. It was a brutal murder of a child.
There is no reason to apologize, TAH.
I can't see where you have crossed any lines in this thread.
You have strong feelings about the case. That's normal. It was a brutal murder of a child.
Hang in there. You're doing just fine.
I agree.. We all have different life experiences and different perspectives. We can all feel very strongly about things as others see them somewhat differently. We all have our opinions and varying degrees of interest and convictions! These crimes disgust us all and are difficult for rational people to comprehend. We can all share in our common disdain for these acts/crimes!
I agree.. We all have different life experiences and different perspectives. We can all feel very strongly about things as others see them somewhat differently. We all have our opinions and varying degrees of interest and convictions! These crimes disgust us all and are difficult for rational people to comprehend. We can all share in our common disdain for these acts/crimes!
spanx--I have read a few mysteries/crime novels--lots of good ones. Prefer the British crime, personally--dry humor and incredibly astute investigators.
And cough--I am priveleged to hear of many crimes--gratified when some are solved.
I only know how I am --which may be so unusual that few could ever believe such a person wasn't up to something nefarious---many have wondered about me for years. Not always able to 'Understand'--how I could be 'so intense'. So it is possible that could also be true for others--Patsy Ramsey, perhaps. If she went through years of chemo--then her response to high stress might be very extreme. I honestly don't know if I could have faced a camera during such a time. I believe she was heavily sedated during a lot of the interviews.
Who knows? Not Denver LE--not the rest of the people that tried. Someone like Phillip Garrido might know--ask him --if he is capable of anything but tangential nonsense.
spanx--I have read a few mysteries/crime novels--lots of good ones. Prefer the British crime, personally--dry humor and incredibly astute investigators.
And cough--I am priveleged to hear of many crimes--gratified when some are solved.
I only know how I am --which may be so unusual that few could ever believe such a person wasn't up to something nefarious---many have wondered about me for years. Not always able to 'Understand'--how I could be 'so intense'. So it is possible that could also be true for others--Patsy Ramsey, perhaps. If she went through years of chemo--then her response to high stress might be very extreme. I honestly don't know if I could have faced a camera during such a time. I believe she was heavily sedated during a lot of the interviews.
Who knows? Not Denver LE--not the rest of the people that tried. Someone like Phillip Garrido might know--ask him --if he is capable of anything but tangential nonsense.
I totally get what you are saying.
For me, this case was very much on my mind as many of my former neighbors in Kansas were from Colorado, so they were hearing things from family and friends back in CO . . . and it was a huge topic of conversation amongst my friends/neighbors.
People were basically very very negative to Patsy whereas I saw her as a totally crushed woman who had lost her precious child and no one was helping find the murderer! It had to be nightmarish - assuming folks would be supportive and instead, she was completely smeared by the press and made to look like some sort of deranged child killer.
Does no one remember all the outrageous things folks said? Everything from accusing Patsy of killing her child over bed-wetting! It was heinous.
I have heard it from many sources that Patsy was heavily medicated during the interviews on TV. I know I WOULD HAVE BEEN!
The whole saga was mishandled. I remember the Jewel case in Atlanta, where Richard Jewell was totally excoriated by the press and folks nationwide completely trounced his reputation - only to be proven later he was not involved in that bombing.
People jump to conclusions and are so quick to tear others down. That is what has upset me about the Jon Benet case.
I will continue to believe that more than one person was involved in this little girl's murder, and I also think they were probably young and/or on drugs. That would totally account for such things as writing that ridiculous ransom note on paper they found in the Ramsey house.
Just b/c folks get all caught up in how they THINK they would handle themselves in such a horrible situation, it doesn't mean that is how the rest of us respond to a crisis. I found that troubling at the time - all the assumptions folks made.
I think this is an interesting case to discuss and I wonder if anyone will ever come forward with information leading to an arrest. Since I believe more than one person was involved, I have great hope that this may one day happen.
I know. Patsy Ramsey survived ovarian cancer--which doesn't exempt her from being 'mean or crazy' nor does her wealth exempt her from such problems but I just never heard anything that convinced me she was 'out of her mind'.
They were from Atlanta and moved back to Atlanta --John Ramsey may still be living here. For a while I attended the church where they were members --believe me somebody would have known if she was 'off'. lol--I'm certainly not an 'upper crust' sort--but I met a number of very nice people at that church.
And yet still, people do the strangest things. In Patsy Ramsey's place I would have been so deeply grieved that I'm certain my demeanour might have been suspect.
That's all I've got.
I agree with you. There is much more evidence pointing to an outsider. I can understand a resentment of the rich, but I also think they deserve the benefit of doubt just as do poorer folks.
'Odd' behaviour can be chalked up to pills from a doctor. It Patsy had gone to a psychologist for help in this, and a smart person would, and that fact got out into the news people would say 'See, she's probably nuts - she did it'.
It is often always ok to have a field day against the rich. I found nothing wrong with their behaviour. They seem like normal folks with a more than a few dollars, but with an odd penchant for showing off their little girl in those God-awful pageants. I am sure normal people do that, but I find them repulsive. They are human kids, not dolls. We are adults, not playing children. But I was a tomboy and distressed my mom considerably because I would not parade around in the frilly little dresses she bought for me and objected to having my hair curled.
About the lie detectors - surely we know that the people who give these tests for the police are capable of getting the results the police want if they are trying to put an end to a rough case. Some of these people, if they want repeat police business, are not above 'solving' a crime in such a way.
Having your kid in such a pageant and not locking the house up - shocking!!!
I criticise my husband because he is not suspicious - too Christian - sometimes. I would think anyone who could afford it would have security devices these days.
I think it is below 'low' to be accusing people who have gone through such a tragedy on such flimsy evidence.
I know that there are perverts who hide their proclivities well, but you can catc a hint while talking to them or examining their past. The Ramsey's, to me, seemed very normal. He seemed to keep a cool head and be unemotional, but I know lots of people in business like that. She seemed drugged up, but after the horrors in her own home with her child, who would not be.
I hate the way we 'pile on the rich' so easily, as though we are punishing them for getting so far in their lives. They are human. There are some things about the human condition that money does not shield you from - like cancer and tragedy in the family.
Heck, the police can lie to you all they want. It is only common sense to get a lawyer/mouthpiece if you are involved in any matter that involves the police.
Temperaments differ. Some people make a great show of personal misery, and others are more discrete about it and have more self-control.
I think the police, after getting no results for a while, start pulling at straws and people affiliated with them, like handwriting 'experts', start implying things that have very weak foundations. Look at that little girl in Utah that had been kidnapped. They were starting to put out some serious innuendos that her dad did it and killed her and hid the body in the hills. People were starting to talk, picking up all those false leads by the cops, who want to look good. It is amazing how the public is so easily controlled by the press in this country, how we leap at every little innuendo and conspiracy theory, how boring our lives may be.
Not everything can be wrapped in a nice little package like on tv. Not every murder is solved. It is a horrible crime to allow a guilty party to roam amonst the rest of us, but in my book it is even worse to convict an innocent person. We certainly have enough of them in our jails - which we found out through DNA testing. Think of how many innocents are in prisons now whose cases don't have the benefit of DNA. I detest a rush to judgement. I detest a trial by public opinion.
Last edited by goldengrain; 07-15-2010 at 10:55 AM..
I think it is below 'low' to be accusing people who have gone through such a tragedy on such flimsy evidence.
The Ramsey's, to me, seemed very normal. He seemed to keep a cool head and be unemotional, but I know lots of people in business like that. She seemed drugged up, but after the horrors in her own home with her child, who would not be.
I hate the way we 'pile on the rich' so easily, as though we are punishing them for getting so far in their lives. They are human. There are some things about the human condition that money does not shield you from - like cancer and tragedy in the family.
Temperaments differ. Some people make a great show of personal misery, and others are more discrete about it and have more self-control.
I think the police, after getting no results for a while, start pulling at straws and people affiliated with them, like handwriting 'experts', start implying things that have very weak foundations. I detest a rush to judgement. I detest a trial by public opinion.
This is a message board, not a jury. We are debating in that light and we weren't privy to every piece of evidence to make a fully informed decision--just discussing it on a board of what our opinions are. Everyone has a right to express theirs without being disrespected. Just because someone disagrees with you, you don't need to call them all "low."
I don't think the evidence the public saw was "flimsy" at all. I think it was overwhelmingly not.
The Ramsey's, to much of the public, did not seem "normal," and police are assessing psychological reactions. Behaviors are important--they are a part of the larger picture, not just one thing to look at, but in context to the rest of the evidence. They can be different then expected, yes, but there are some behaviors which are very abnormal and these are important to look at.
Example--Booking a flight to another state 6 hours after your child has been found brutally murdered is very suspicious. IMO. And, while it is normal to get a lawyer, it is interesting to get one so closely after a murder. There were many reports that they would not be interviewed separately and the interviewing was done months after the murder. THis is suspicious, IMO, and to many others. It's not 1 piece of evidence, it's many like this.
People with money get better lawyers, like everything else, they do have priviledges. You can't compare a public defendant to a team (of what the parents had) of lawyers who are paid very well. The rich, often times, have better representation, which means you are more likely to not go to jail! Just a fact. Right or wrong.
I don't think the police were pulling straws. They were seeing what was in front of them and trying to prove their case in order to get an indictment, which they couldn't.I think the DA was just plain afraid, IMO.
Last edited by Nanny Goat; 07-15-2010 at 01:02 PM..
Let me put this another way: my family would react to things very similarly to what the Ramsey's reacted and I believe most folks would consider us normal. Maybe we react that way b/c we can write out the checks that allow us to react that way - but that doesn't mean we are murderers, for heaven's sake!
There is no way in hell I would take a polygraph test and neither would I discuss A THING with police without an attorney. Those tests are inadmissible, anyway! And they are definitely not fail proof!
As far as booking a flight - I would have been on the phone booking a flight out of Boulder, too - back to my family in the South, where people understood me and weren't trying to demonize me into some kind of baby killing monster. And as far away from the place where my precious child had been killed as possible. Patsy wasn't living in Boulder cause she liked it there - she was there b/c her husband's business situation was there. I can only imagine how she yearned to get back to Atlanta.
I don't find any of the Ramsey's behaviors odd at all. Just b/c you might doesn't mean a thing other than your life experiences are not the same as the Ramseys. Sure doesn't mean anything as far as Patsy Ramsey's involvement in her daughter's death.
We are all speculating here, but speculating doesn't mean one must assign nefarious motives to innocent actions/behaviors.
Well, sheesh! After reading this one page it's easy to see how O.J. walked. I'd like to see these various crimes solved. Other than that I don't like to dabble in this dark world of crime. There is something called common sense and a eye for human behavior. Using either or both is what I pray for in a jury for the accused. Unfortunately, both sides look for the dumbest of the dumb for jurors. Why?? Because both sides think they can persuade the jurors to see things their way.
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