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As for US bases, many have been redeveloped since the end of the cold war, and the remaining bases are on borrowed time.
The fact that US bases even exist in the UK is an indication that you don't even have sovereignty over your own country. There never has been a UK base on US soil and there never will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
I wouldn't say the US does a great job of protecting it's citizens,
The US - UK extradition treaty has been called one sided by the UK news media. The US Government can snap their fingers and get a UK citizen who has never broken any UK law and who has never stepped foot in the US extradited. Living in a country like that would scare the hell out of me. Fortunately I'm living in a country where I don't have to worry about that.
Quote:
One-sided treaty was meant to handle terrorist suspects
FEW treaties have sparked such an anti-American furore or provoked such strong opposition in Britain’s business circles as the “one-way” extradition treaty signed by the Blair Government and the Bush Administration in 2003.
The treaty, negotiated in the wake of the 9/11 atrocities, was intended to speed up the extradition of terrorist suspects. It was always intended to be reciprocal, but the failure of the US Congress to ratify the terms meant that, in effect, its application is entirely one-sided.
US prosecutors no longer have to provide prima facie evidence of wrongdoing to British courts in demanding the extradition of a suspect; but Britain cannot take such short cuts in American courts.
The treaty has been cited by Tony Blair’s critics as an example of the US Administration’s indifference to its Iraq ally’s concerns and its refusal to give Mr Blair any reward for his political support.
The fact that US bases even exist in the UK is an indication that you don't even have sovereignty over your own country. There never has been a UK base on US soil and there never will be.
So now you are claiming we don't have sovereignty because we allow you to have bases on UK soil.
That's a very good argument for closing US bases.
It should also be noted that US bases are not US property, they belong to the UK Ministry of Defence which can tell the US to leave whenever it wants.
So the idea that the land or property is American, is simply not true, and you are here not by some God given right but as an ally, so perhaps you should start acting like one.
After the Dunn case, the UK Parliament put a temporary ban on the US doing any work in relation to upgrading Croughton, and the US was made to sign a new agreement that made it crystal clear than no Americans have any immunity whatsoever off base, in any circumstances whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz
The US - UK extradition treaty has been called one sided by the UK news media. The US Government can snap their fingers and get a UK citizen who has never broken any UK law and who has never stepped foot in the US extradited. Living in a country like that would scare the hell out of me. Fortunately I'm living in a country where I don't have to worry about that.
The US is now having extradition increasingly rejected, due to the inhumane nature of the US system and that would scare the hell out of me if I were American.
The US/UK extradition treaty was signed after 9/11 in order to help the US War on Terror, however constant misuse by the US means there is now overwhelming support for it to be replaced, and this has support from across Parliament, and will inevitable happen. Indeed the current extradition treaty is already causing problems in relation to basic human rights, precisely because the US doesn't really adhere to international human rights.
The Sacoolas and the Assange cases are being seen as a catalyst for future change, and the current extradition treaty clearly can not go on, and it simply demonstrates that you don't allow the US to have privileged relationship, because they will just abuse it, as they have done in numerous cases including that of Harry Dunn. I therefore totally agree, that the sooner the current extradition treaty is scrapped the better.
So the idea that the land or property is American, is simply not true, and you are here not by some God given right but as an ally, so perhaps you should start acting like one.
/QUOTE]
very true BNW, however I'm not expecting that to happen.
the USA govt tends to ride roughshod over everything and everybody and act like they have some god given right, they dont.
look how they are interfering in NI over what is a trade dispute between UK and EU.
if there was ever another Falklands war they would probably interfere in that too.
they interfere in everything else so why wouldnt they.
So the idea that the land or property is American, is simply not true, and you are here not by some God given right but as an ally, so perhaps you should start acting like one.
very true BNW, however I'm not expecting that to happen.
the USA govt tends to ride roughshod over everything and everybody and act like they have some god given right, they dont.
look how they are interfering in NI over what is a trade dispute between UK and EU.
if there was ever another Falklands war they would probably interfere in that too.
they interfere in everything else so why wouldnt they.
The Special Relationship is now little more than a joke, and UK support has waned in recent years, with the likes of Obama, Trump and the current Biden administration.
I really don't care what the American view of Brexit, or UK trade deals or UK Domestic constitutional politics or UK borders.
I really don't care about US Domestic policy or trade agreements or borders, as they are US issues.
The only thing I want, is for Britain to have a relationship with the US that is similar to other European countries such as our neighbour France, and to scrap the current extradition treaty ad replace it with one similar to France and other European countries including Austria,, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Norway, Portugal, Switzerland etc, all of whom have laws against extraditing their own citizens to other countries' jurisdictions.
As for US bases, we should follow the example our neighbours and Americas oldest all the French according to Obama.
Staying out of US led wars and foreign policy is also another sensible, as one of the best decisions Britain made was to stay out of Vietnam, much to the annoyance of LBJ and his administration, whilst the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan must be learnt.
As for Brexit Britain has ignored the US, and is currently introducing legislation to reform the NI Protocol, which is nothing to do with the US, and US interference only ends up angering people and causing Anti-Americanism, although I don't think many Americans realise this.
As for China, I would steer clear of a war of Taiwan if I were the US.
as far as Britain is concerned I think we should stay out of wars which dont concern us, I dont know what we were doing in Afghanistan, I thought we went in to help the US find Bin Laden but why we stayed I'll never know.
The US hasn't even signed much of the Geneva Convention, does not participate in the International Courts or International Law, and used the term enemy combatant rather than PoW as well as Guantanamo Bay to both circumnavigate the Geneva Convention articles regarding PoW's and torture, as well as the US constitution in relation to due process.
The US has signed all four of the Geneva Conventions, and all three of the subsequent Protocols (Amendments). It has not ratified two of the Protocols.
The Geneva Conventions apply only to countries, and only those countries that have signed up.
Al Quaeda, Islamic State, Al Shabab, and various other groups are neither countries nor signatories, and have no ability to declare war on behalf of any signatory.
Wanna go down the road of UK "internment without trial" in N.I.?
You're just on another one of your "Gish Gallops".
Your on the British sub-section of this forum, and it's an area for British people to discuss.
Well, applying that logic to your own situation where 11,000+ of your own comments are in the P&OC forum, vs 2,700 in the UK forum.........
Maybe better not discuss that in public.........
So now you are claiming we don't have sovereignty because we allow you to have bases on UK soil.
That's a very good argument for closing US bases.
OMG, I think you finally got it. I've been telling you that for over two years, and you finally got it. There are lots of good arguments for closing those bases, but it's not going to happen until the US decides to close them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
After the Dunn case, the UK Parliament put a temporary ban on the US doing any work in relation to upgrading Croughton,
You yourself posted a plan in the works for upgrading the base. BTW thanks for giving up your green space to expand this US spy base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
The Sacoolas and the Assange cases are being seen as a catalyst for future change, and the current extradition treaty clearly can not go on, and it simply demonstrates that you don't allow the US to have privileged relationship, because they will just abuse it, as they have done in numerous cases including that of Harry Dunn. I therefore totally agree, that the sooner the current extradition treaty is scrapped the better.
Yeah, don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Your politicians are all talk and no action.
as far as Britain is concerned I think we should stay out of wars which dont concern us, I dont know what we were doing in Afghanistan, I thought we went in to help the US find Bin Laden but why we stayed I'll never know.
A lot of us Americans are wondering what we were doing in Afghanistan. I guess we just need something to keep the military busy and relevant.
As for Brexit Britain has ignored the US, and is currently introducing legislation to reform the NI Protocol, which is nothing to do with the US, and US interference only ends up angering people and causing Anti-Americanism, although I don't think many Americans realise this.
It only angered small-minded people who decided that any comment was interference and who were already anti-American to begin with.
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