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To evade is to avoid justice, especially by trickery. That is no evidence that we have anything like the sort in Tanzania (and I'd argue with the Harry Dunn case either, but I'm not going to beat that horse again). In fact, Tanzania has explicitly chosen to not charge the American in that case. And as I mentioned before, Tanzania has an extradition treaty with the US. Thus, considering that this is not a case of diplomatic immunity, if Tanzania chose to charge the American, the US would be legally bound to turn him over. Due to these distinct differences, folks like me are puzzled by some (whether the Dunn family, you, or otherwise) choose to bring this case up. Countries help get their citizens. This isn't some strange notion or practice, but common place. While I don't know all of the particulars of the Tanzania case (and neither does the reporter from the article you posted), it would not be inconceivable that the US chose to fly the man back home afterward as his presence there would be destabilizing for the community. But if Tanzania was not going to charge him, that is something that should be applauded, not attacked, from where I stand.
If that's the case then the same should apply to diplomats and workers in the US.
They should just arrange for a private plane out of the US and forget about anything they have done.
In reality the US often tries to extradite people who have never set food in America, for crimes not committed in America, whilst refusing bail and engaging in plea bargaining to try and secure a guilty plea.
The US System is well documented in the Speeches by David Davis to the House of Commons, and the British courts have also questioned whether the US Penal system even meets basic standards of human rights.
Whilst if it were a British Diplomat who had killed an American whilst driving recklessly in the US, I would be demanding that they go back and face the US courts, and the same would be true of a British Aid worker, who killed a woman whilst drink driving.
The reality is that Americans have very different standards in relation to US Citizens and the Citizens of other nations, and some Americans see themselves as some kind of superior human beings, and all this America First and American exceptionalism nonsense seems to just reinforce such pathetic views.
Last edited by Brave New World; 06-16-2022 at 05:14 AM..
If anyone reeks of arrogance it's an Anti-British troll, which is what you are.
Furthermore Americans who think they can just kill British or any other citizens with impunity are the arrogant ones and I am well within my rights to protest at the disgusting manner in which the Dunn family have been treated by US authorities.
The Dunn family met with Trump in 2019 in the White House, and he was prepared to give them compensation, but they refused. A federal judge in Virginia also ruled that the Dunn family could sue Sacoolas in the US, and there was a civil case. You think that is disgusting treatment by US authorities?
In reality the US often tries to extradite people who have never set food in America, for crimes not committed in America, whilst refusing bail and engaging in plea bargaining to try and secure a guilty plea.
The US System is well documented in the Speeches by David Davis to the House of Commons, and the British courts have also questioned whether the US Penal system even meets basic standards of human rights.
Whilst if it were a British Diplomat who had killed an American whilst driving recklessly in the US, I would be demanding that they go back and face the US courts, and the same would be true of a British Aid worker, who killed a woman whilst drink driving.
The reality is that Americans have very different standards in relation to US Citizens and the Citizens of other nations, and some Americans see themselves as some kind of superior human beings, and all this America First and American exceptionalism nonsense seems to just reinforce such pathetic views.
I wouldn't argue against that, but that's not how things work in any country when an offender with diplomatic immunity breaks the law. The correct recourse for such people if they host nation is adamant about things is to expel the offender.
Still, diplomatic immunity is very important in many ways, too, in order to prevent other countries from targeting diplomats just out doing their jobs. You'll get some unpopular calls with immunity place, but I think the overall goal of immunity is a good one, even if I would support certain changes.
If a British diplomat did what Sacoolas did and there was an understanding in place that the diplomat was immune from prosecution, I personally would not be calling for a changing of the rules after the fact. I will add that if this happened the reverse, this wouldn't be a big deal in the states; the media would have long moved on
Current Events is part of the international section of the forum and if I recall it was merely a thread about the Harry Dunn case.
No, Current Events is in the General Forums not International. Not counting Administrative and stuff there are three sections: U.S. Forums, World Forums, and General Forums. The United Kingdom is in the World Forums. But it's all good. As I understand it, everyone is free to post in whatever section they want. Just like I'm free to post in this section.
If I remember correctly that thread got shut down because you couldn't stay on topic. You might want to be careful that doesn't happen to this thread too. Because personally I find it kind of entertaining to see how long you can keep this going. So I would hate to see it get shut down.
The Dunn family met with Trump in 2019 in the White House, and he was prepared to give them compensation, but they refused. A federal judge in Virginia also ruled that the Dunn family could sue Sacoolas in the US, and there was a civil case. You think that is disgusting treatment by US authorities?
No actually Trump tried to trick the Dunn family into meeting with Anne Sacoolas at the White House, so she could apologize to them, and they could all bury the hatchet. Trump never offered them compensation. Anyway I believe the Dunn family was primarily looking for justice, not compensation. They only went to the White House hoping to convince Trump to extradite Sacoolas. Which Trump reiterated would never happen.
The fact that US bases even exist in the UK is an indication that you don't even have sovereignty over your own country. There never has been a UK base on US soil and there never will be.
Not true at all. US bases are in the UK because of WWII and the Cold War. The same reason they were there in the Cold War is still with us today in today's Russian Federation. The UK does have some troops stationed in the US--but no bases, granted. As far as I'm concerned, the British are more than welcome to have bases on our soil, but it seems there has been no need for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz
No actually Trump tried to trick the Dunn family into meeting with Anne Sacoolas at the White House, so she could apologize to them, and they could all bury the hatchet. Trump never offered them compensation. Anyway I believe the Dunn family was primarily looking for justice, not compensation. They only went to the White House hoping to convince Trump to extradite Sacoolas. Which Trump reiterated would never happen.
Yes, she was at the White House then, but Trump was ready to pay compensation, as I said. In any event, my point was the family has hardly been treated in a "disgusting" manner by the US, considering not only that the civil suit was allowed to proceed, but also the meeting with the president with an offer for compensation.
I wouldn't argue against that, but that's not how things work in any country when an offender with diplomatic immunity breaks the law. The correct recourse for such people if they host nation is adamant about things is to expel the offender.
Still, diplomatic immunity is very important in many ways, too, in order to prevent other countries from targeting diplomats just out doing their jobs. You'll get some unpopular calls with immunity place, but I think the overall goal of immunity is a good one, even if I would support certain changes.
If a British diplomat did what Sacoolas did and there was an understanding in place that the diplomat was immune from prosecution, I personally would not be calling for a changing of the rules after the fact. I will add that if this happened the reverse, this wouldn't be a big deal in the states; the media would have long moved on
I think the UK media have moved in, you don't see much about it in the everyday online UK papers. Just a few hard core zealots keep mentioning it.
Not true at all. US bases are in the UK because of WWII and the Cold War. The same reason they were there in the Cold War is still with us today in today's Russian Federation. The UK does have some troops stationed in the US--but no bases, granted. As far as I'm concerned, the British are more than welcome to have bases on our soil, but it seems there has been no need for that.
Yes, she was at the White House then, but Trump was ready to pay compensation, as I said. In any event, my point was the family has hardly been treated in a "disgusting" manner by the US, considering not only that the civil suit was allowed to proceed, but also the meeting with the president with an offer for compensation.
The Dunn family was insulted by the White House incident, and I would be too. You don't bring a perpetrator and a victim's family together for a face to face meeting to iron things out, and then try to bribe them to be quiet with a check. That's just messed up.
Quote:
The family of a 19-year-old motorcyclist killed outside a Northamptonshire RAF base in a crash involving the wife of a US diplomat have said compensation from Donald Trump will not resolve the matter.
The Dunn family’s spokesman, Radd Seiger, told PA Media that their meeting at the White House on 15 October ended with the president saying the secretary of the treasury, Steven Mnuchin, was “standing by ready to write a cheque”.
Seiger added: “It was almost as if he let it slip out. When he said: ‘We’ve got the driver here’, he basically meant we’re all going to have a big hug and a kiss and I’ll get my treasury guy to write a cheque. That’s how it was. On the day it just didn’t register with me, but the more I think about those words, the more shocking it is.”
Afterwards, Charles said of Trump’s offer: “It’s not going to bring Harry back. Justice has to be done. They all need to learn that this can’t happen again and they need to learn that things need to be put into place to stop this.”
During the visit to the White House, Trump ruled out Sacoolas being sent back to the UK but also revealed that the diplomat’s wife was in the next room and tried to persuade them to meet her. They refused and later said they were unimpressed.
It's a US Sub-Section labelled the United Kingdom for British forum members.
I don't go on to the US sub-forums are start expressing my views.
I either express them on this sub-forum or on the international forums.
As for my views, they are my own views and beliefs based on events in my country.
As for being tolerated what utter nonsense, and all I have suggested is that given recent US interference and actions, the UK would be better off having a relationship more similar to France and some other European countries. You can tolerate that as much as you like.
OMG Alert!
Rules for thee, but not for me!
The UK section is not just for "British" members, it's for anyone to comment on UK matters.....
BNW has started a total of 305 threads during his time on CD. Of these 172 or 56% were in the P&OC thread.
Some deal with US matters only, (NYC Transit Explosion). Many name specific overseas countries, and would be more appropriate in those regional forums. A couple have racial overtones........
Sacoolas should have faced a British court of law in the Uk.
Justice was not served.
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