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Rose coloured glasses- check
I must have had them pretty rosy because I didn't expect so many rude replies. For some reason I had the idea in my head that Vermonters were generally happy & nice. ??
Yes, it's cold in VT. But don't the houses have heat? Or do yall mean it's too cold to do anything outside... ? I mean, it is brutally SWEALTERING HOT in Houston, but people still survive inside with a/c. I figured it'd just be the opposite, i.e. surviving inside with heaters. Maybe I'm just missing something? I've lived in the mountains where there was frost on my blanket (inside the house) with me asleep underneath it and I had no problem with it whatsoever...but 82 degrees F with 90+ % humidity inside the house? WITH A/C on?? NO THANKS. You can always pile on clothes... but you can't get any less than naked.
Re: isolation: I do not go outside very often here in Houston- maybe get out of the house once every few weeks, and almost exclusively at night. I am hoping the move will get me out more. I was under the impression that VT is a fairly safe state, no? I don't mind economically depressed areas as long as there aren't daily shootings like there are here. I have police on speed dial here & hear gunshots almost daily.
I don't mind being "remote" because I'm fairly certain that VT remote isn't TX remote. VT is so tiny-- I tend to think of it as rural without being remote. If I can get to a store in 40-45 minutes, I'm not remote.
I don't mind paying a pet deposit- I was planning on $2+k nonrefundable pet deposit if need be. I am used to pet deposits. The last landlord we had, we paid $300 per pet. We don't mind, just as long as we can have our pets.
As far as everyone telling me to double my cost expectations... I'm a bit confused. I did a lot of searching around and saw that the median income of households in several different towns was somewhere around $32k-$38k or so. How on earth could a household earning $32k-$38k a year possibly afford $1600 a month for housing? Maybe it just sounds like a lot because here it would be that $1600 + $600-$800 a month for electricity bills. My winter electricity bills here are $350 and summer $700. Vermont electric bills can't possibly be that high, can they? As it stands, we are paying right at about $1700 a month for house pmt + all utilities (elect, h2o, gas, phone, water, cable) and we live in one of the worst neighbourhoods in Houston.
I have also done alot of browsing online and have seen a lot of houses for sale for $100k or less... and rents under $1k for houses. Almost all of the listings I have seen accept pets, so I don't know why so many replies said the opposite.
I will take everyone's comments into consideration & will check out links & such.
Thanks so much for the info.
Oh, and for those who say VT is not for us... where would you suggest? In all reality we would prefer Europe but we're stuck in the states for the time being... thought we'd try to find a good spot to call home while we're here.
Last edited by groens; 11-26-2009 at 02:11 AM..
Reason: posted while I was typing- wasn't done.
Have you given any thought To Kingman Arizona ? that area sounds like a better fit by your description of your needs , not too hot in summer not too cold in the winter . reasonable housing . mountain city with access to all of your needs .
Thanks for the tip, but I do not want to move to another red state, esp with McCain & Kyl !! sorry... no can do. That is the main reason we're fleeing this one.
The cool or heating season in Vermont lasts about six months. I have no doubt you will be able to find something around 100,000, but another thing to consider is heating bills in the northeast. A home at that price will most likely be poorly insulated and in poor condition. Consult a Realtor, anyone who has ever bought a home knows the pictures of homes for sale don't always represent what the home really looks like. They are meant to help sell the home.
I remodeled and repaired my rental home this past year. The price came out to almost 150,000. This was just to repair rot (sills, structure), upgrade and bring to code and insulate every room. The work had to be done. No fancy kitchen or anything else. I did not expect the price to be that high, but the work had to be done. you may not end up in the same case, but this is an idea of how a home that looks very nice can cost you.
We pay $700 electric bills in summer from the A/C, and $300 to $350 electric in winter + $250-$300 gas bills in winter, so all in all we pay $700 a month for heating/cooling year round.
Are heating bills in VT more than that? If so, we may start looking at Spokane again...
PS we know all about remodeling and repairing-- we're doing it now with our house getting it ready to sell. We have a lot of rot & a lot of upgrades to do. It can certainly run into $$$.
We are just looking for a modest home. Nothing fancy. If it needs weatherising, we can do it. We need a roof & a place to work.
Just a question out of curiosity... where do the poor working class people in VT live? Certainly there are regular neighbourhoods with working class folks, right? Those areas can't be too expensive or noone would live there, right?
Thanks for your reply... upkeep is one serious factor when thinking of buying... we want to rent first so we can put feelers out on where exactly we want to buy. We were looking at duplexes for sale in VT and were thinking of living in one side...
Cheers!
Just out of curiosity, what towns are you searching for real estate/rentals? The part of VT I live in it is very hard to find something for under 100K esp with land. Heck, I would say it's downright impossible! Same with rentals with pets. For real estate prices in that range your best bet would be to look in the St. Johnsbury/Lyndon area. Salaries are low here compared to housing costs yet lots of people make it work (side jobs, 2nd job etc).
I don't think anyone here is being rude...just stating realities. Those of us that are from here/lived here for years have seen many move here with those rose colored glasses on only to turn around and high-tail it back to where they came from after a year. Living here is very different than vacationing here/doing internet research. We're just trying to help
Is it possible for you to come for a visit and stay a couple weeks? That way you can see what amt of $$ will get you real estate wise and give you a sense about what part of the state you'd like to settle in.
Rose coloured glasses- check
I must have had them pretty rosy because I didn't expect so many rude replies. For some reason I had the idea in my head that Vermonters were generally happy & nice. ??
(SNIP)
Oh, and for those who say VT is not for us... where would you suggest? In all reality we would prefer Europe but we're stuck in the states for the time being... thought we'd try to find a good spot to call home while we're here.
To answer your questions about heating and electricity, we pay less for it than you describe spending in Texas. That was my experience of utilities in SFla, too: I spent more money to run a smaller home.
In Vermont, though, those costs vary greatly depending on the quality of a home's insulation and heating system. Also, in the hot season, we spend more $ running a/c in Rutland City than we would if we lived at a higher elevation in a less populated area. On the other hand, we rarely drive in Vermont. The money I spent in FL insuring, fueling, and maintaining cars far outweighed what I spend on utilities in Vermont. But again, I live in town and drive very little here.
As for your experience on this forum: For both work and fun, I spend a lot of time on internet forums. I constantly see people posting zingers and barbs. I almost never see people interacting this way in person or over the phone. Partly it's the anonymity. Also, studies show that email and internet postings are more likely to be perceived as negative or rude (and to generate snarky responses) than almost any other form of communication. (Two of my fave pieces on this by Daniel Goleman: "Flame First, Think Later: New Clues to Email Misbehavior" and "Email Is Easy to Write (and to Misread).")
My experience of Vermont in my 13 years here, and my experience of Northern New England over 22 years, is that it's relatively safe and people are generally kind. There's nowhere I'd rather live. However, those are generalizations. People here may have rotten days and/or lack compassion for their fellow beings. Plus there's the characteristic New England reserve, which leads some people to call New Englanders cold and unfriendly. I don't perceive it that way, but I can see how some might.
When posters here say, "Vermont is not for you," they are stating their own thoughts and perceptions, not some objective truth. Some posting here aren't even in Vermont. They don't know you or your needs. They don't know what you'll encounter once you arrive here (heck, neither do you). Only you can know if Vermont is for you.
I agree with VTer and others that you can discover whether Vermont is for you only by learning as much as you can, crunching the numbers to see if you can swing it financially, and checking it out in person.
I also know that longer posts are less likely to be read. So thanks and congratulations if you made it this far. :-)
Last edited by Sherylcatmom; 11-26-2009 at 07:30 AM..
I agree with taking off rose-colored glasses, always a good idea when making important decisions.
This may be true for you and others, but the opposite is true for me and others. If the OP has lived in cold climes, perhaps they know this about themselves.
The longer I'm away from the Florida heat (which I always hated), the less I'm able to tolerate it even on visits. Even Vermont summers can be a bit much for me. In Florida, I felt trapped indoors most days, huddled in the air conditioning, fighting heat-induced nausea and headache. It was incredibly isolating.
In Vermont, there are only a few days a year when it's too hot for me to go out. In 22 years here, I've never experienced a day that felt too cold for me to go out. I'm also very involved with my community in Vermont, something I never had in Florida, perhaps because it was so uncomfortable to leave the house.
You describe Houston perfectly re: too uncomfortable to leave the house. It is miserable here. I had a friend from London come visit in August and it nearly killed him. He said it was literally like walking on the surface of the sun. Same goes for a friend who also came one August and visited from France. He said "no wonder everyone is so fat in Texas- you would die from the heat if you tried to walk anywhere"...
I have found craigslist to have a far better supply of houses to rent.
Burlingtonfreepress also has rentals but most of them are in the Burlington vicinity.
I live 35 minutes away from Burlington and I pay $1300 for a 3 bedroom farmhouse on 1/2 acre. The rentals are extremely expensive the closer to town you go.
I can't speak for any other areas of Vermont, I have only lived here for a year and a half, but apart from the cost of living, Vermont is a beautiful place and I find people pleasant and friendly in general.
Just out of curiosity, what towns are you searching for real estate/rentals? The part of VT I live in it is very hard to find something for under 100K esp with land. Heck, I would say it's downright impossible! Same with rentals with pets. For real estate prices in that range your best bet would be to look in the St. Johnsbury/Lyndon area. Salaries are low here compared to housing costs yet lots of people make it work (side jobs, 2nd job etc).
I don't think anyone here is being rude...just stating realities. Those of us that are from here/lived here for years have seen many move here with those rose colored glasses on only to turn around and high-tail it back to where they came from after a year. Living here is very different than vacationing here/doing internet research. We're just trying to help
Is it possible for you to come for a visit and stay a couple weeks? That way you can see what amt of $$ will get you real estate wise and give you a sense about what part of the state you'd like to settle in.
If we end up moving to Vermont, we would never move back to Houston or to Texas. We'd end up going somewhere else. The reason we're looking for a reasonable rent is because we need to build our client base in VT and neighbouring states (we don't mind the driving) for the business. We're essentially starting from scratch. Business is EXCELLENT here, but we have absolutely ZERO quality of life. Anything is better than where we are. Hubby would get a job locally + work the business, just like he does now. I just don't want to pay 50%+ of our income for housing like so many choose to do here in Houston.
We are planning on going to VT in January for a couple of weeks to scope it out & drive around getting a feel for it.
I did internet MLS searches on VT properties and found a LOT at or under $100k. Ideally we'd like to rent and buy next year. I looked on craigslist and a few local online papers as well as numerous realtor sites. Most of the rentals accepted pets. Some didn't, most did. Most of the rentals were in the $750 range. Some were tiny a-frame houses, some were older and needed a little work. Most were in Springfield or St Johnsbury and some other areas.
The house we are living in now should have probably been condemned before we started fixing it up, so I don't mind "needs work", as long as there is heat.
As long as we can drive and take orders and deliver canvas, I don't care really what area we live in. Houston is so big that we sometimes have to drive over an hour- almost 2- one way for a consult or delivery, and still be well within Houston metro area.
We just wanted to know where the normal people lived & look there LOL
thanks!
Last edited by groens; 11-26-2009 at 08:31 AM..
Reason: fix error
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That is the main reason we're fleeing this one.
