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I have never seen a casino turn a community around. They don't really hurt them, but they don't really help them either. The state just gets more tax money and people tend to spend more of their discretionary income on the casino that used to go to movie theaters, home depot (like home projects) etc.
While I hate casinos myself (I find them boring, annoying, loud, they smell like cigarette smoke and are a total waste of time and money IMO), but I don't care one way or the other if they build them. I have nothing against them for those that like them and if they can keep my taxes a little be lower then I'm good with that.
But I don't see this doing much of anything for PG County as a whole. Kansas City and St Louis are now both huge gambling markets with several very large casinos in each metro and they were both promised the world. I honestly don't think they have done a lot for either city except add an entertainment option (that only takes away from other options).
Overall, I think they are nice to have as just one more thing to do in a city. But they just don't create all the economic spinoff and urban redevelopment etc that they try to sell the public on initially. The only things casinos to for a community is make the roads busier to get people to and from them.
In the case of PG County being right across from DC and VA, I think it's an overall net gain in revenue and jobs though. For that reason, I say go for it. Just don't expect it to create any miracles in PG County or Maryland. Little will change in the long haul.
You make some very interesting points but I have to disagree slightly regarding the impact that a casino development (like any large commercial project) has on an area. Being from St. Louis, I can tell you that the city, especially downtown, was a ghost town/dump prior to the riverboat casinos coming online. Although they were not the sole engine for the city's rebirth it did serve as a catalyst and gateway for other ventures (e.g. new stadium, new recreational/entertainment businesses, new offices buildings, and the migration of businesses back into the downtown area). Could something else have done the same thing? Probably, but the casino was willing to go into an area that no other business had an interest in at that time. The same effect came from Casinos in Tunica, MS. Not only did it cultivate a new industry in that part of MS but also provided jobs and recreation to residents of that area and Memphis, TN (15 minutes away). Like you I am not a big casino person for the same reason but I (like you) appreciate the additional options that it could bring.
Last edited by UrbanScholar; 08-15-2012 at 01:47 PM..
There have been numerous empirical studies that show casinos actually improve the development of its surrounding communities more often than not. Just my two cents.
Me and my wife were up in Anne Arundel county visiting my mom yesterday and decided to stop by Arundel Mills for some shopping and check out the new casino while we were at it. Traffic and parking have always been awful at the mall, and it certainly was no different despite having a new parking garage. The new garage reminded me very much of the ones at the Las Vegas casinos.
That being said, the mall was packed. The casino was full of people. All the restaurants around were full of people. Granted this was a Saturday around 5pm, but still. There's no question in my mind that casino is bringing large quantities of people from around the state who are spending money in AA. There's a ton of new development happening around the mall. New apartment buildings, new home communities and town centers. Honestly, I was impressed by what I saw.
We didn't spend any money at the casino but walked around it for a bit just to get a feel of the place. Obviously missing are the table games, which I fully expect to be legalized real soon now.
I don't have any 'moral' issues with casinos and gambling personally. In fact, I love going to Las Vegas for a week every other year or so and getting my gambling on. So I'm actually glad to see this looks like it's working out for Maryland.
I haven't been to any of the other MD casinos (despite being in favor of them, I'm not the kind of person who will frequent them) but the Live! Casino in AA is not bad. I noticed a distinct lack of cocktail waitresses and the aforementioned table games, but otherwise it seemed like a perfectly fine place to spend some hours and money.
So, with all that being said, I hope they bring a casino to National Harbor. I don't visit National Harbor much (a couple of times a year), but what I did notice was a glaring LACK of people around. Seriously, there was way more people in the parking garage at the Live! Casino than there was anywhere in National Harbor it seemed like. So much money went into that place and... it doesn't look to me like many people are going there. I'm very familiar with the area (Oxon Hill) as I grew up in PG and went to OHHS in the 90's and I think the area's reputation is certainly affecting how people from outside of the area view National Harbor as a destination. I think a casino will definitely help turn that perception around and bring people and money to the businesses at the National Harbor and surrounding areas.
The half dozen of so times I've been to National Harbor the place seemed fairly empty and not crowded at all. There's nothing really THERE that is going to bring anyone to it. Gaylord is very nice. The water front is very nice. But the restaurants and shops there aren't going to bring anyone from Montgomery County or Northern VA there, that's for sure. A casino? Hell yeah.
Me and my wife were up in Anne Arundel county visiting my mom yesterday and decided to stop by Arundel Mills for some shopping and check out the new casino while we were at it. Traffic and parking have always been awful at the mall, and it certainly was no different despite having a new parking garage. The new garage reminded me very much of the ones at the Las Vegas casinos.
That being said, the mall was packed. The casino was full of people. All the restaurants around were full of people. Granted this was a Saturday around 5pm, but still. There's no question in my mind that casino is bringing large quantities of people from around the state who are spending money in AA. There's a ton of new development happening around the mall. New apartment buildings, new home communities and town centers. Honestly, I was impressed by what I saw.
We didn't spend any money at the casino but walked around it for a bit just to get a feel of the place. Obviously missing are the table games, which I fully expect to be legalized real soon now.
I don't have any 'moral' issues with casinos and gambling personally. In fact, I love going to Las Vegas for a week every other year or so and getting my gambling on. So I'm actually glad to see this looks like it's working out for Maryland.
I haven't been to any of the other MD casinos (despite being in favor of them, I'm not the kind of person who will frequent them) but the Live! Casino in AA is not bad. I noticed a distinct lack of cocktail waitresses and the aforementioned table games, but otherwise it seemed like a perfectly fine place to spend some hours and money.
So, with all that being said, I hope they bring a casino to National Harbor. I don't visit National Harbor much (a couple of times a year), but what I did notice was a glaring LACK of people around. Seriously, there was way more people in the parking garage at the Live! Casino than there was anywhere in National Harbor it seemed like. So much money went into that place and... it doesn't look to me like many people are going there. I'm very familiar with the area (Oxon Hill) as I grew up in PG and went to OHHS in the 90's and I think the area's reputation is certainly affecting how people from outside of the area view National Harbor as a destination. I think a casino will definitely help turn that perception around and bring people and money to the businesses at the National Harbor and surrounding areas.
The half dozen of so times I've been to National Harbor the place seemed fairly empty and not crowded at all. There's nothing really THERE that is going to bring anyone to it. Gaylord is very nice. The water front is very nice. But the restaurants and shops there aren't going to bring anyone from Montgomery County or Northern VA there, that's for sure. A casino? Hell yeah.
The National Harbor has taken its hits since opening due to the economy tanking. However it does take time for a large scale development to fully build out (think Bmore Inner Harbor or DC's U Street). That said Tanger Outlets and a MGM resort casino would definitely serve as anchors for more retail and entertainment development at the Harbor and in the surrounding area. That new development will probably accelerate once construction begins on the outlet and, at minimum, the casino getting approved. That will serve as leverage for the county and developers when talking to retailers and other types businesses. More retail and entertainment options should pack the patrons into the National Harbor.
The National Harbor has taken its hits since opening due to the economy tanking. However it does take time for a large scale development to fully build out (think Bmore Inner Harbor or DC's U Street). That said Tanger Outlets and a MGM resort casino would definitely serve as anchors for more retail and entertainment development at the Harbor and in the surrounding area. That new development will probably accelerate once construction begins on the outlet and, at minimum, the casino getting approved. That will serve as leverage for the county and developers when talking to retailers and other types businesses. More retail and entertainment options should pack the patrons into the National Harbor.
The newness has worn off. I know when I went when it first opened, the place was pretty poppin'. Although I agree, NH needs more attractions to bring people back. To the regulars, it's just another town center - a rather large one, but still, just a town center. Like UrbanScholar said, Tanger Outlets and a possible MGM Casino resort should draw a larger more consistent stream of visitors to National Harbor.
Besides, the casino attractions like the magic shows, etc. should draw people as well. I look forward to some Las Vegas style shows.
The newness has worn off. I know when I went when it first opened, the place was pretty poppin'. Although I agree, NH needs more attractions to bring people back. To the regulars, it's just another town center - a rather large one, but still, just a town center. Like UrbanScholar said, Tanger Outlets and a possible MGM Casino resort should draw a larger more consistent stream of visitors to National Harbor.
Besides, the casino attractions like the magic shows, etc. should draw people as well. I look forward to some Las Vegas style shows.
Yeah that is the main issue. It didn't help that domestic retailers and entertainment companies took a hit over the past 5 years which made NH scramble for ways to be completed. That is why both of these projects would be a boon for that development. Especially if they can come online before the Southwest DC project and the Alexandria projects come online. Also, by the nature of the respective businesses, both Tanger and MGM will refresh their looks and offering on a regular basis to keep patronage up. I am also looking forward to the entertainment options that would come with an MGM resort. I am also interested in seeing what other retail, shopping, dining, and entertainment options that will come as a result of the additional anchors. I am sure that Peterson has a few prime prospect in the pipeline that will be unveiled once more detail comes out about the respective projects. It would be hard not to consider a location like that if their number of visits double or triple
Last edited by UrbanScholar; 08-19-2012 at 06:12 PM..
While we're talkign casinos, I think the initial legalized gambling was a terrible plan that limited our potential. I don't see why Ocean Downs was chosen as a site for the casino, just due to the horse racing industry's influence, while a much better place for an Eastern Shore casino would be Ocean City. They could have allowed riverboat gambling on the Chesapeake Bay like they do in many other states like Mississipppi, Louisiana, and Missouri. That would have brought in a lot more revenue. That or allowing a casino hotel in Ocean City itself.
A casino wasn't sited in Ocean City because the Town government made it clear it wasn't wanted or needed. They can barely handle the crowds they get now.
Also, when the gambling sites were authorized they put them under cover of nearby betting, hence "near Laurel", etc. That's how Ocean Downs got slots, people already gambled there.
Here is the question that will appear on the ballot for gambling expansion:
Question 7
Gaming Expansion Referendum
Do you favor the expansion of commercial gaming in the State of Maryland for the primary purpose of raising revenue for education to authorize video lottery operation licensees to operate “table games” as defined by law; to increase from 15,000 to 16,500 the maximum number of video lottery terminals that may be operated in the State; and to increase from 5 to 6 the maximum number of video lottery operation licenses that may be awarded in the State and allow a video lottery facility to operate in Prince George’s County?
For the Additional Forms and Expansion of Commercial Gaming
Against the Additional Forms and Expansion of Commercial Gaming
I don't like how they worded it since there is no option for people outside PGC who want to have table games in existing casinos but don't want the National Harbor casino built. There should be one questions about table games and another question about expansion to PG County. One the other hand, if its defeated I'm sure there will be new legislation on table games alone which will be debated in the general session, which is good as that will take up time they would otherwise spend coming up with more of their liberal agenda and tax hikes like the gas tax hike. Casino money should also be partially earmarked for transportation IMO to prevent gas tax increases.
WHile I live in Baltimore County, I do think the revenue from PG County can benefit the entire state....its not like Arundel Mills or Perryville will close down so the jobs will still be there. Also the potential gamblers from Virginia and the Carolinas who may make the trip up. I also think they should consider casino boats in the Potomac River from National Harbor, if that can be more palatable if they are that concerned about preventing local residents from losing their money.
Its cool how far our mentality here in Maryland has changed. In the early 90s, cruise ships going to and from Baltimore couldn't even open their casinos until they were out of Maryland territorial waters (apparently the ships were allowed to open the casinos in Virginia waters). They then rewrote the law so that a cruise ship can open its casino in state waters IF its sailing to a foreign destination in order to prevent gambling cruises to nowhere. They were that serious about prevnting gambling here. Even more so than Bible Belt places like Mississippi and Louisiana. I am from Louisiana originally and there was less opposition to casinos than there were to things like strip clubs or abortion clinics. Gambling like alcohol is not a sin if done in moderation.
Also I don't think having casinos leads to that many social problems. The crime rate in Las Vegas is lower than that in Baltimore, Washington DC, Richmond, Philadelphia or PG County. If anythin the new Baltimore City casino will gentrify part of the current ghetto where the site is located and price some of the ghetto people out of the city or away from the downtown area. Not that this is good for us in the suburbs.......so if the Baltimore City casinos brings crime it will be to the surrounding counties.
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Question that will appear on the ballot
