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If you're one of the many many people in the tropics who have never left the region, how do they know if they have winter or not? Majority of people that live in the tropics are poor, unfortunately, and can't afford to travel outside of their country or neighboring country. To them, winter is the lower sun and dry season.
I'm not denying any of that. It can still be subjective though. Do you really think people in Ciudad Bolivar, Venezuela really believe they have a "winter"? I'm sure some do, but I'm also sure many don't.
I was going by 1981-2010 averages. Yeah sure, NYC can get many individual years that are wintry. If you ask me, 1994, 1996, 2003-2005, 2009, 2010, 2014 and 2015 all had real winters (to name a few). But when you take the average you also have to include lame years like 2012, 2013, 2008, 2006, etc. After taking averages the numbers even out to be rather lame: 5C average high from Dec-Feb and only 24 in of snow. (I assumed that the question pertained to a typical year and not an extraordinary year, which is why I used averages rather than extremes.)
First of all nothing lame about 2012-3. And February 2006 had our all-time record snowstorm of 26.9 or 27.1 inches. I forget the final count. New York City usually has many multi-year snow droughts and multi-year snow streaks. The former includes:
Mid-December 1948 through mid-March 1956 (very little snow to speak of and not much more cold weather);
January 2, 1971 through January 1978 (a few isolated events such as a quick-melting 8" storm in February 1975 with some notable cold in January 1971 and January-February 1973, an epic ice/sleet storm in December 1973 and a few minor events in January-March 1974 interspersed by warm spells (La Niña conditions) and some cold in January 1976 and November 1976-January 1977;
March 1979-January 1982;
March 1983-March 1993 (a few storms but none worthy of mention in between);
Fall 1996-January 2000
But clearly NYC and even Washington have to be fully equipped for snow removal and residents need serious cold-weather gear. These are winter cities.
Even summers can be fickle. The average number of 90+ days is about 17 but we've recently been as low as two (2004) and as high as 41 (1991 and 1993). We've had multi-year streaks of 100+1
1952-55, and 1957; and
2010-2012
I only mention summers to point out that NYC has big swings from the averages. Even demonstrably cool and rainy summers such as 1969 (remember Woodstock) usually feature several sizzling periods.
Averages really are not relevant. There are really no major Southern Hemisphere cities that need to have a fleet of snowplows.
Location: João Pessoa,Brazil(The easternmost point of Americas)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
First of all nothing lame about 2012-3. And February 2006 had our all-time record snowstorm of 26.9 or 27.1 inches. I forget the final count. New York City usually has many multi-year snow droughts and multi-year snow streaks. The former includes:
Mid-December 1948 through mid-March 1956 (very little snow to speak of and not much more cold weather);
January 2, 1971 through January 1978 (a few isolated events such as a quick-melting 8" storm in February 1975 with some notable cold in January 1971 and January-February 1973, an epic ice/sleet storm in December 1973 and a few minor events in January-March 1974 interspersed by warm spells (La Niña conditions) and some cold in January 1976 and November 1976-January 1977;
March 1979-January 1982;
March 1983-March 1993 (a few storms but none worthy of mention in between);
Fall 1996-January 2000
But clearly NYC and even Washington have to be fully equipped for snow removal and residents need serious cold-weather gear. These are winter cities.
Even summers can be fickle. The average number of 90+ days is about 17 but we've recently been as low as two (2004) and as high as 41 (1991 and 1993). We've had multi-year streaks of 100+1
1952-55, and 1957; and
2010-2012
I only mention summers to point out that NYC has big swings from the averages. Even demonstrably cool and rainy summers such as 1969 (remember Woodstock) usually feature several sizzling periods.
Averages really are not relevant. There are really no major Southern Hemisphere cities that need to have a fleet of snowplows.
Ushuaia is a great city,not like New York but.. and they snow an average 49.4 Days per year vs 11 of New York.
This winter in particular they have a heavy snowy days,you can see in the SH Winter thread.. so they need snow removal too..
And according to criteria of mosts here,Southern Hemisphere outside Antartic dont have winter.
So why exist Temperate deciduous forest in South America? if Southern Hemisphere dont have winter they Should not exist!
Ushuaia is a great city,not like New York but.. and they snow an average 49.4 Days per year vs 11 of New York.
Does it accumulate? Is it usually "taint" or mixed with sleet or rain?
[quote=ghost-likin;41106753] This winter in particular they have a heavy snowy days,you can see in the SH Winter thread.. so they need snow removal too..[/quoe]Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost-likin
And according to criteria of mosts here,Southern Hemisphere outside Antartic dont have winter.
So why exist Temperate deciduous forest in South America? if Southern Hemisphere dont have winter they Should not exist!
Killing frosts do not equal winters. I would make my criteria at least five days where the temperature holds below freezing for 24 or more hours.
Problem is, "winter" is not a subjective term at all, but a very well defined one, both astronomically and meteorologically. It can get subjective within the tropics, but not beyond them, at latitudes higher than 23º.
People in here asume that winter is related to a range of temperatures, usually the ones they grew up with in such season or the ones the world media usually portrays as "winter" (I had already pointed that there is a tendency of defining 'true' seasons according to the climate of the northeastern quarter of the USA, largely based on the influence of the media from that country).
Problem is, "winter" is not a subjective term at all, but a very well defined one, both astronomically and meteorologically. It can get subjective within the tropics, but not beyond them, at latitudes higher than 23º.
People in here asume that winter is related to a range of temperatures, usually the ones they grew up with in such season or the ones the world media usually portrays as "winter" (I had already pointed that there is a tendency of defining 'true' seasons according to the climate of the northeastern quarter of the USA, largely based on the influence of the media from that country).
The problem is, winter is subjective. Obviously there's a preset definition of winter. Obviously I know that there's a "winter" here (the quarter of the year that's the coolest with the lowest sun angle) the only problem is, to ME it is not a winter. Different people have a different criteria to what constitutes as a winter in their mind.
I guess we just have differing opinions on the matter.
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