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Over the 10 years or so I’ve been on this forum, the definition of subtropical gets narrower and narrower with every passing year. At this point it seems like the consensus is that it’s not a climate classification at all but simply a subcategory of “warm temperate” or something like that. Which I’m fine with, but do not personally agree with because even with the narrowest definition, the latitudinal subtropics are roughly 1/8 of the planet ’s surface.
Over the 10 years or so I’ve been on this forum, the definition of subtropical gets narrower and narrower with every passing year. At this point it seems like the consensus is that it’s not a climate classification at all but simply a subcategory of “warm temperate” or something like that. Which I’m fine with, but do not personally agree with because even with the narrowest definition, the latitudinal subtropics are roughly 1/8 of the planet ’s surface.
By the time this year is done, it would be restricted to anything south of Tampa Bay area.
Are you making things up again? Again jumping around with your inconsistent claims.
I'm not. You're clearly going tit-for-tat again, focusing on irrelevant details while missing the forest for the trees.
Exhibit A:
Quote:
You do realize the northernmost part of Fujian is south of the 28th parallel? The capital, Fuzhou, is a the same latitude as Ft. Lauderdale!
28 degrees latitude coastal Florida looks like a tropical paradise compared to cool and cloudy Fujian
Carefully reread what I wrote in the prior post. I know about Fujian's latitude, as well as China's colder averages compared to other corresponding regions of the globe. However, the impressive stability without severe cold extremes still makes it a fine example w/regards to the vegetative development that I'm referring to — again Fuzhou is the "Banyan City," while places in the US with the same winter averages struggle to sustain simple washingtonia palms long term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asagi
Where is the evergreen paradise around Shanghai or Mar del Plata?? They look nothing like the truly near-tropical evergreen paradise in Misiones or Guangdong.
"Laurophyll" diversity in Argentina peaks in Misiones (e.g. Plinia and Eugenia) and drops precipitously south of Corrientes. There is similar drop-off north of coastal Fujian.
Are you still talking about an evergreen broadleaf forest or an "evergreen climate"? Which one is it
Mar del Plata is still far more evergreen with laurophylls than same latitude Washington DC. Shanghai too is more evergreen with laurophylls compared to other areas of the US with the same climate averages.
Over the 10 years or so I’ve been on this forum, the definition of subtropical gets narrower and narrower with every passing year. At this point it seems like the consensus is that it’s not a climate classification at all but simply a subcategory of “warm temperate” or something like that. Which I’m fine with, but do not personally agree with because even with the narrowest definition, the latitudinal subtropics are roughly 1/8 of the planet ’s surface.
Over the 10 years or so I’ve been on this forum, the definition of subtropical gets narrower and narrower with every passing year. At this point it seems like the consensus is that it’s not a climate classification at all but simply a subcategory of “warm temperate” or something like that. Which I’m fine with, but do not personally agree with because even with the narrowest definition, the latitudinal subtropics are roughly 1/8 of the planet ’s surface.
I haven't seen the definition getting narrower myself. What I have consistently seen since before time is people having objections to the -3°C to 0°C lower limit.
There's also been Joe who's always maintained that subtropical is not a climate classification but an environment. While I don't fully agree with this, I can see the word being equally well used in both contexts which probably indicates an opportunity for improvement w.r.t. terminology. If the Cfa zone had a different name, something like extracontinental or somesuch, most of the conversation would have never taken place.
Nah. USDA zone 8 is fine for the US in general. However, you can restrict the territory to zone 9+ for better long-term presentation.
I honestly agree with this tbh, but I see a lot of people on here that really like to make it seem like the Southeast US is just somehow just like Pennsylvania or Upstate NY. In reality, many broadleaf evergreens sustain, like magnolias and live oaks for example. It just so happens to be that like some other people say, people get hung up on the fact that having the word "tropical" doesn't mean everything from the tropics per se.
Another thing to note is, is that zone 6 is clearly not subtropical enough, despite that you can grow magnolias there. I say this because, more often than not, you got areas that are naturally more northern-feeling, like Massachusetts, Michigan, and Ohio, all northern states. It makes a lot more sense to put the boundary closer with the South, the area most famous for a lot of the more subtropical vegetation and whatnot. Live oaks are a great example of this, with Charleston and Savannah being filled with them everywhere, as well as dwarf palmettos as a forest cover too. This makes any area really feel the subtropical vibes imo.
However, I think that places like VA, MD, and DL have characteristics of both North and South, despite all three being seen as more of South, but as a native to VA, I can say that my home state often feels like you can be in Ohio or Pennsylvania and it wouldn't feel that different imo. Both of those more northern states feel very similar to me, which is very nice, but I also see that VA, MD, and DL have a lot more of the chance to show off the coldest hardy palms, lavender, and rosemary; VA already has a thriving wine industry though too.
It's a good thing that those 3 states I mentioned can be seen as rather a "middle zone" if you will, even as for the fact there is clearly zone 8 in the Eastern Shore region, but VA also feels very temperate, even as if there are quite a bit of subtropical plants available to grow. In addition, at the local Lowe's, they only have mums and mostly Christmas-related plants outside now, since people think that the growing season is over, and it really looks very wintery for the lack of plants you can plant now. Interesting though, there are a few salad green plants still out, but only outside of the main garden section. However, the garden seed inventory inside is not there, but it's replaced by Christmas decorations instead.
For the fact of SC, a real Southern state, vegetable seeds are available even in January, as well as quite a bit of trees still to plant, and they get out things like blueberry bushes and salad veggies in February too. Usually, it's from mid December to the first week of February that it is the most bare in the garden section.
I garden in SC and VA, and from what I've seen, SC is a lot less of a warmer PA and more of a true Southern area in terms of all the subtropical gardening options and the vibes of the area, along with a lot more planted palms as the integral landscaping in the area. This is what I think about subtropicality of both states and the other two states mentioned with VA, which are basically just like VA in a way but some maritime influences by the Bay.
I'm not. You're clearly going tit-for-tat again, focusing on irrelevant details while missing the forest for the trees.
Exhibit A:
Carefully reread what I wrote in the prior post. I know about Fujian's latitude, as well as China's colder averages compared to other corresponding regions of the globe. However, the impressive stability without severe cold extremes still makes it a fine example w/regards to the vegetative development that I'm referring to — again Fuzhou is the "Banyan City," while places in the US with the same winter averages struggle to sustain simple washingtonia palms long term.
Mar del Plata is still far more evergreen with laurophylls than same latitude Washington DC. Shanghai too is more evergreen with laurophylls compared to other areas of the US with the same climate averages.
Wait so now you want to talk about averages instead of extremes and latitude??? You're just a constantly shifting goal post
Forget latitude, it's only fair if we compare Fuzhou at 26 degrees latitude to 32 degrees in coastal Georgia LOL
Over the 10 years or so I’ve been on this forum, the definition of subtropical gets narrower and narrower with every passing year. At this point it seems like the consensus is that it’s not a climate classification at all but simply a subcategory of “warm temperate” or something like that. Which I’m fine with, but do not personally agree with because even with the narrowest definition, the latitudinal subtropics are roughly 1/8 of the planet ’s surface.
There is a subset of posters who want "subtropical" to be restricted to "where laurophyll evergreen forests predominate, and there is a distinct warm and cool season", even though this represents a minority of land area in "subtropical" areas by generally accepted definitions.
Wait so now you want to talk about averages instead of extremes and latitude??? You're just a constantly shifting goal post
Forget latitude, it's only fair if we compare Fuzhou at 26 degrees latitude to 32 degrees in coastal Georgia LOL
Nope, I've been quite consistent in what I'm talking about. How much nitpicking are you going to do to deflect from the fact of the South's cold winter extremes, and the huge effects that it has on vegetative presentation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS
There is a subset of posters who want "subtropical" to be restricted to "where laurophyll evergreen forests predominate, and there is a distinct warm and cool season", even though this represents a minority of land area in "subtropical" areas by generally accepted definitions.
No one "wants" anything. It's all about actually having a true understanding of vegetative ecology.
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Again jumping around with your inconsistent claims.
