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Different pines are native to all sorts of climates from the Caribbean to northern Norway and Siberia so I wouldn't think of them being a marker of subtropical climates.
I would consider long leaf pines, slash pines, canary island pines, stone pines, ect as subtropical plants.
They are very different in look and cold tolerance compared to like a ponderosa pine, which is a zone 3a plant while the subtropical pines are zone 7-9 plants.
If you don't think that underbrush looks subtropical, then I'd question how much time in subtropical climates you've spent.
It doesn't look anything like the subtropical climates of South Africa and the Canary Islands I've experienced and much more like definitely not subtropical NW Europe in winter.
It doesn't look anything like the subtropical climates of South Africa and the Canary Islands I've experienced and much more like definitely not subtropical NW Europe in winter.
One thing that I notice about the Southern Hemisphere is how quickly the "wet" subtropical/tropical look and influence dies off as you go poleward of ~30° or so — you then get some sort of quasi-med or "warm oceanic" regime going through.
The differences in ecology and climate between Durban and East London illustrate this well. See also Sydney versus Coff's Harbour in Australia, or even Buenos Aires and Porto Alegre vs Floripa. I don't know what to call it, but I can definitely sense the "midlatitude" features that grow stronger in poleward direction — even in the ocean moderated Southern Hemisphere.
One thing that I notice about the Southern Hemisphere is how quickly the "wet" subtropical/tropical look and influence dies off as you go poleward of ~30° or so — you then get some sort of quasi-med or "warm oceanic" regime going through.
The differences in ecology and climate between Durban and East London illustrate this well. See also Sydney versus Coff's Harbour in Australia, or even Buenos Aires and Porto Alegre vs Floripa. I don't know what to call it, but I can definitely sense the "midlatitude" features that grow stronger in poleward direction — even in the ocean moderated Southern Hemisphere.
In South Africa it's probably because most of them are relatively dry climates for their type and also as you go south and west there is a transition from a summer rainfall pattern to an all year rainfall pattern and eventually a mediterannean pattern.
There are even patches of Afromontane forest on south and south east facing mountain slopes that catch more rain and are shaded from the sun within the city limits of Cape Town, even though the wider region has a typically mediterranean climate that is too dry for forests and has scrub vegetation instead.
It's similar to the high altitude forests of tropical Africa, but occurs at low altitudes that far south.
It's similar to the high altitude forests of tropical Africa, but occurs at low altitudes that far south.
Good finds for sure. It definitely seems like many subtropical areas have a drying trend — enough such as to restrict lusher forests to mountain slopes, as in Australia, South Africa, India, etc.
I suspect yes, but far from ideally. Apparently breadfruit grows in Durban which has similar winters. I saw a breadfruit tree growing at the palmetum in Santa Cruz de Tenerife which has lower winter highs (but higher lows) than Ubatuba. The breadfruit tree was a fair size, but quite beaten-up looking. I'm guessing it wasn't just the cooler than ideal winter temperatures but also the semi-arid climate and being in a windy location sticking out into the harbour. On street view the tropical plants like coconuts look healthier in Ubatuba than in Durban. I'm guessing partly due to it being wetter and also probably less windy. The wind on the South African coast makes a lot of things look beaten-up, not just heat demanding plants.
I suspect yes, but far from ideally. Apparently breadfruit grows in Durban which has similar winters. I saw a breadfruit tree growing at the palmetum in Santa Cruz de Tenerife which has lower winter highs (but higher lows) than Ubatuba. The breadfruit tree was a fair size, but quite beaten-up looking. I'm guessing it wasn't just the cooler than ideal winter temperatures but also the semi-arid climate and being in a windy location sticking out into the harbour. On street view the tropical plants like coconuts look healthier in Ubatuba than in Durban. I'm guessing partly due to it being wetter and also probably less windy. The wind on the South African coast makes a lot of things look beaten-up, not just heat demanding plants.
Pics of breadfruit in Durban?
Even breadfruit is a low-mid tier "ultra-tropical", they are somewhat common in southeast Florida and regularly produce fruit. Rare cold weather knocks them back but they recover. Cacao/chocolate roughly fits into the same category too.
Even breadfruit is a low-mid tier "ultra-tropical", they are somewhat common in southeast Florida and regularly produce fruit. Rare cold weather knocks them back but they recover. Cacao/chocolate roughly fits into the same category too.
More impressive would be durian and mangosteen..
No, I have only heard about it. It is possible that people have confused jackfruit with breadfruit as they are related and fairly similar looking but jackfruit is less demanding.
There is a photo of a seeded breadfruit at Santa Cruz palmetum in this thread: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index...24-breadfruit/ It's looking a lot healthier in the photo than when I saw it earlier this month.
Would Durban be less suitable than Santa Cruz de Tenerife? Winter average lows are considerably lower but highs a little higher and the much greater rainfall, humidity and summer rather than winter rainfall bias would be more favourable to most tropical plants.
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