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LOL, one single sorry specimen barely clinging to life next to the shelter of a warm house is a far cry from your original claim that queen palms grow abundantly without winter protection.
That's because it's a sapling that was probably planted there during spring that will die off in a year or two.
Even in downtown Savannah I find queens crammed near buildings. In order to see mature specimens fully exposed , you'll have to drive out to Tybee Island.
I would say Vermont, New Hampshire, and even parts of Massachusetts are hemiboreal. The areas have boreal flora and fauna (Aspen, Moose) as well as temperate flora/fauna (Maple, White-Tailed Deer).
Most of the "hemiboreal" zone in the map actually covers the (current) boreal zone, and extends too far north. The southern tip of James Bay is not considered "hemiboreal", with it's presence of Arctic Foxes and Polar Bears. Plus, People don't think of Chicago as being "transitional" between temperate and subtropical either.
The tropical zone also extends too far North, especially in Texas, where locations as south as Brownsville got below freezing. Even places in lowland Mexico got below freezing
I think it makes sense to have cool/warm subtropical, as well as cool/warm Oceanic climates - the genetics and patterns of both climates in each group are broadly similar, with temperature differences mostly just down to latitude.
This already happens with Csa/Csb, but is ignored for Cfa/Cfb climates, which lack the similarities shared by the Cs climates.
James Bay where Moosonee is located is subarctic and is not hemi-boreal. Hemi-boreal is a cool continental or temperate place like my hometown Toronto.
I just did for you guys.
Using ERA5, taking 1991-2020 normals, and applying my own system's threshold over it. Of course just for the temp requeriment, there is also Pp onto the classification mix.
For the most part it agrees with my system and the environment analysis associated with. Aside from the fact that I think that the temperate lower boundary should be a bit south than that line on the map (especially towards New England), my major issue is with the hemiboreal boundary. From my deep analysis of the environment (wich should fit with the climate system) I always have seen the northern lakes forests of the US (like those in north Michigan and NE Minnesota) as strongly hemiboreal in overal character. But just going by this ERA averages, the boundary goes up and leaves the lower48 almost free of hemiboreal. The station by station checking shows different mean values in those areas than this map, and of course are more in tie with the environment and my system.
Honestly I would say the hemiboreal area is pretty narrow to me, although I guess it depends how you define it. I'm quite familiar with the North Shore of Lake Superior which you have as the hemiboreal-temperate boundary. The area you have labelled as hemiboreal is mostly just spruce, larch, quaking aspen and birch. No hemlock, no white pine, no maple, no oak, no beech. Personally I would lean towards just calling it straight up boreal. And actually I don't think you have to go that far north of Lake Superior to see big decreases in aspen, birch and larch. You do have quite a lot of birch around Red Lake though. https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.95472...7i13312!8i6656
As you can see from streetview, October and April can be quite snowy. https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.69785...7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.ca/maps/@48.52734...7i13312!8i6656
Another reason to describe these areas as boreal rather than hemiboreal is that they get about 6 months of snow cover.
The northern range of sugar maples is around Wawa on the east end of Lake Superior and Thunder Bay on the West end of Lake Superior. So I would use that as the northern boundary for hemiboreal. Around Batchawana Bay and Sault Ste Marie you start to get a big increase in the diversity of trees, with a lot more maples, and the first appearance of pines, hemlocks and beech, but you still have a lot of spruce, so to me this is the classic hemi-boreal character. You still have a strong hemi-boreal character along the North Shore of Lake Huron to Sudbury.
The Southern edge of the Canadian Shield, which Ontarians would call Cottage Country, ie Parry Sound, Huntsville, Algonquin Park, Bancroft areas has a lot fewer spruce and is mostly the typical mixed forest of pine, maple, birch, hemlock and beech. I would still be willing to call these "mixed forest" areas hemiboreal rather than temperate though because you don't really get many of the plants that are much more widespread and thriving around the Golden Horseshoe and shores of Lake Erie, such as black walnut, massive wild grapes and mulberries. Northern parts of the Southern Ontario plain like Barrie, Peterborough, Kingston and Mt. Forest have fairly similar vegetation to Cottage Country. Maples are quite dominant, but there are still deciduous trees and a lack of Carolinian flora. In these areas, snow cover is also pretty consistent during winter, but it's more like 3-4 months of winter vs 6 months North of Wawa. Most of this is zone 4-5.
In the warmest parts of Southern Ontario, you have intermittent snow cover throughout the entire winter, grass that can remain green-ish well into January, and an abundance of mulberry, black walnut, wild grapes, and other vines like bur-cucumbers. Zone 6-7.
I would say Vermont, New Hampshire, and even parts of Massachusetts are hemiboreal. The areas have boreal flora and fauna (Aspen, Moose) as well as temperate flora/fauna (Maple, White-Tailed Deer).
Most of the "hemiboreal" zone in the map actually covers the (current) boreal zone, and extends too far north. The southern tip of James Bay is not considered "hemiboreal", with it's presence of Arctic Foxes and Polar Bears. Plus, People don't think of Chicago as being "transitional" between temperate and subtropical either.
The tropical zone also extends too far North, especially in Texas, where locations as south as Brownsville got below freezing. Even places in lowland Mexico got below freezing
Here's some pictures I've taken in the areas he has as the temperate-hemiboreal transition. I think it should be the hemiboreal-boreal transition instead.
I actually live about 80 miles south of you and about 50 miles northwest of Savannah. No queens grow around here. The only palms I see are sabal palmettos and sabal minors. That's it. No citrus either like you claimed in an earlier post.
You live around Statesboro right, yes there is a citrus farm in that area, how could you not be aware of that. It's called Franklin''s citrus farm
The main citrus crop is satsuma oranges, there's groves of them right in your area.
Even if I post pics people will still find something to complain about but here is a pic, I like to show evidence.
There's half a million citrus trees being harvested in Georgia, there's a guy here in Augusta who planted many varieties of citrus that thrive here.
Nah, cool temperate is probably a better term.
That transitional area on his map is what I'd call warm temperate.
Yeah, actually I call them Cold Temperate climates (C3t), because they belong onto the cold family of climates, grade 1, or "moderate" year-wise. And its subtypes are continental (C3tc) and oceanic (C3to) aswell as hyperoceanic (C3ch)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain
Winnipeg is temperate?
Winnipeg is just in the very lower end of the cold temperate area. Actually the out-of-the-heat-island nearby areas are plain hemiboreal.
That's because it's a sapling that was probably planted there during spring that will die off in a year or two.
Even in downtown Savannah I find queens crammed near buildings. In order to see mature specimens fully exposed , you'll have to drive out to Tybee Island.
It's been there for years, it would have already died off by what you're say.
It's getting to the point where people just make stuff up to ease the cognitive dissonance.
Honestly I would say the hemiboreal area is pretty narrow to me, although I guess it depends how you define it. I'm quite familiar with the North Shore of Lake Superior which you have as the hemiboreal-temperate boundary. The area you have labelled as hemiboreal is mostly just spruce, larch, quaking aspen and birch. No hemlock, no white pine, no maple, no oak, no beech. Personally I would lean towards just calling it straight up boreal. And actually I don't think you have to go that far north of Lake Superior to see big decreases in aspen, birch and larch. You do have quite a lot of birch around Red Lake though. https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.95472...7i13312!8i6656
As you can see from streetview, October and April can be quite snowy. https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.69785...7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.ca/maps/@48.52734...7i13312!8i6656
Another reason to describe these areas as boreal rather than hemiboreal is that they get about 6 months of snow cover.
The northern range of sugar maples is around Wawa on the east end of Lake Superior and Thunder Bay on the West end of Lake Superior. So I would use that as the northern boundary for hemiboreal. Around Batchawana Bay and Sault Ste Marie you start to get a big increase in the diversity of trees, with a lot more maples, and the first appearance of pines, hemlocks and beech, but you still have a lot of spruce, so to me this is the classic hemi-boreal character. You still have a strong hemi-boreal character along the North Shore of Lake Huron to Sudbury.
The Southern edge of the Canadian Shield, which Ontarians would call Cottage Country, ie Parry Sound, Huntsville, Algonquin Park, Bancroft areas has a lot fewer spruce and is mostly the typical mixed forest of pine, maple, birch, hemlock and beech. I would still be willing to call these "mixed forest" areas hemiboreal rather than temperate though because you don't really get many of the plants that are much more widespread and thriving around the Golden Horseshoe and shores of Lake Erie, such as black walnut, massive wild grapes and mulberries. Northern parts of the Southern Ontario plain like Barrie, Peterborough, Kingston and Mt. Forest have fairly similar vegetation to Cottage Country. Maples are quite dominant, but there are still deciduous trees and a lack of Carolinian flora. In these areas, snow cover is also pretty consistent during winter, but it's more like 3-4 months of winter vs 6 months North of Wawa. Most of this is zone 4-5.
In the warmest parts of Southern Ontario, you have intermittent snow cover throughout the entire winter, grass that can remain green-ish well into January, and an abundance of mulberry, black walnut, wild grapes, and other vines like bur-cucumbers. Zone 6-7.
As I stated earlier, I just added my temp thresholds over a preexisting map from the ERA5 reanalysis tool. But i don't entirely with it, especially about that hemiboreal zone. If I had drawn it myself it would have looked different, especially around that zone, but I just put it over the ERA5 to show you guys quickly how a minimal accurate division may look. Take in mind this ERA5 is a contorned version from a grided reanalysis, with a resolution of 0,5ºx0,5º, and is not 100% based on station by station recollection, wich would be the most accurate measurement IMO, although unfortunately It doesn't cover it all, hence the need for satellite reconstruction, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey the Otter
I would say Vermont, New Hampshire, and even parts of Massachusetts are hemiboreal. The areas have boreal flora and fauna (Aspen, Moose) as well as temperate flora/fauna (Maple, White-Tailed Deer).
Most of the "hemiboreal" zone in the map actually covers the (current) boreal zone, and extends too far north. The southern tip of James Bay is not considered "hemiboreal", with it's presence of Arctic Foxes and Polar Bears. Plus, People don't think of Chicago as being "transitional" between temperate and subtropical either.
The tropical zone also extends too far North, especially in Texas, where locations as south as Brownsville got below freezing. Even places in lowland Mexico got below freezing
Brownsville's area is clearly tropical, and a couple in a century kind of vortexes don't change that. It doesn't even have a mean minimum below freezing.
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It's called Franklin''s citrus farm 
