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Saying this, if YOU were an employer and one of your employees after reopening caught Covid-19 and died, or spread it to a family with children and something unfortunately happened, how would you approach the situation and more than likely business ending lawsuit? Would becoming a statistic in the acceptable casualties list then matter to you once it hits home? Probably not.
This is what employers are ultimately thinking so forget paychecks as self preservation is king right now. Eventually a balance will come, but saying the economy will bounce right back or things have to be given to people is overly optimistic IMO. Plunging into poverty (aka living above ones means) was happening well before Covid-19 and this event simply brought it to the surface.
Most of those restaurant and bar employees, which Asheville disproportionately skews toward, don't make a lot of money. Combine the low wages with the relatively high living costs, there's not a lot left over with which to save.Even among higher income people, it just takes a lot to live - it's not necessarily about poor personal financial management.
Unless the business is grossly negligent and takes at least some precautions, I don't see how you could have a successful lawsuit over this. I work for a medical employer. While I'm telecommuting now, the expectation is that we are back in the office on 5/4 if the stay at home order ends and we are responsible for our own PPE. Personally, I don't think that is safe or responsible - we could continue working remotely indefinitely, but most people aren't going to rock the boat with lawsuits with unemployment where it will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLM2000
Do you really think so? I wonder. How many people will stand shoulder to should with a crowd for a music venue? Or sit in a restaurant where tables are tight or any one of a hundred other things we did BC (before covid) without much thought other than some people really need to bathe more I am anxious to get out but I know it's not going to look like the old normal and I really don't know what the new normal will look like or if I'll be comfortable going along right away. I don't have any answers but honestly nothing I've heard or read makes me think - aha! that's how we're going to do this.
For me, it will just depend on what others are doing.
If there are few people in a restaurant or they doing decent distancing, sure, I'll stop in. I probably won't be going to a full event at the US Cellular Center for awhile. Concerts at The Orange Peel - maybe, if it's an act I really want to see.
Do you really think so? I wonder. How many people will stand shoulder to should with a crowd for a music venue? Or sit in a restaurant where tables are tight or any one of a hundred other things we did BC (before covid) without much thought other than some people really need to bathe more I am anxious to get out but I know it's not going to look like the old normal and I really don't know what the new normal will look like or if I'll be comfortable going along right away. I don't have any answers but honestly nothing I've heard or read makes me think - aha! that's how we're going to do this.
Agree completely. Pre-virus, we spent a relatively large chunk of $ on eating out, vacations, entertainment, etc.. Post-virus, we have severely curtailed our spending in these areas. Not about to return to pre-virus levels until there's a vaccine and/or cure/treatment. Not worth endangering our lives. I suspect we're not alone.
Being in the 30-40 age bracket, most of my friends and acquaintances are ready to get back to 'normal'. I would have no problem walking into my favorite restaurant right now as long as they exercised some type of restricted capacity (50%?). We are all mostly in healthcare and have seen the very limited impact this has had on the area, our hospital, and our way of life. 38 total cases in Buncombe. 3 deaths. All elderly and/or very sick already.
This should happen by May 1st. The capacity rules should be given a full month after that to measure the impacts and effects. That's our opinion anyway. What do we know though: We're just Doctors, Nurses, PA's, NP's, and data scientists...
The whole doom and gloom 'the sky is falling on Asheville' is hilarious. I would truly hate to wake up in such negative and spiteful skin every morning!
Being in the 30-40 age bracket, most of my friends and acquaintances are ready to get back to 'normal'. I would have no problem walking into my favorite restaurant right now as long as they exercised some type of restricted capacity (50%?). We are all mostly in healthcare and have seen the very limited impact this has had on the area, our hospital, and our way of life. 38 total cases in Buncombe. 3 deaths. All elderly and/or very sick already.
This should happen by May 1st. The capacity rules should be given a full month after that to measure the impacts and effects. That's our opinion anyway. What do we know though: We're just Doctors, Nurses, PA's, NP's, and data scientists...
The whole doom and gloom 'the sky is falling on Asheville' is hilarious. I would truly hate to wake up in such negative and spiteful skin every morning!
Being in the 30-40 age bracket, most of my friends and acquaintances are ready to get back to 'normal'. I would have no problem walking into my favorite restaurant right now as long as they exercised some type of restricted capacity (50%?). We are all mostly in healthcare and have seen the very limited impact this has had on the area, our hospital, and our way of life. 38 total cases in Buncombe. 3 deaths. All elderly and/or very sick already.
This should happen by May 1st. The capacity rules should be given a full month after that to measure the impacts and effects. That's our opinion anyway. What do we know though: We're just Doctors, Nurses, PA's, NP's, and data scientists...
The whole doom and gloom 'the sky is falling on Asheville' is hilarious. I would truly hate to wake up in such negative and spiteful skin every morning!
Preface: I'm not a medical professional and have no experience with infectious diseases.
I think your proposal is a reasonable approach if there is all of the following:
1) a testing protocol and
2) systematic tracing in the event of a positive test result and
3) enforceable quarantine in the event of a positive test result.
As for testing protocal, IIRC, Dr Fauci was recommending weekly testing for resumption of fan-less sporting events. I don't know the time between being exposed and becoming infectious to others, but some time period based on that science would seem prudent for a recurring test.
Contact tracing and enforceable quarantine could probably be accomplished with a cell phone app (for those that have them). Contact tracing would involve some sacrifice of personal privacy, probably less of an issue in the event of a positive result (quarantine).
Being in the 30-40 age bracket, most of my friends and acquaintances are ready to get back to 'normal'. I would have no problem walking into my favorite restaurant right now as long as they exercised some type of restricted capacity (50%?). We are all mostly in healthcare and have seen the very limited impact this has had on the area, our hospital, and our way of life. 38 total cases in Buncombe. 3 deaths. All elderly and/or very sick already.
This should happen by May 1st. The capacity rules should be given a full month after that to measure the impacts and effects. That's our opinion anyway. What do we know though: We're just Doctors, Nurses, PA's, NP's, and data scientists...
The whole doom and gloom 'the sky is falling on Asheville' is hilarious. I would truly hate to wake up in such negative and spiteful skin every morning!
I'm not in the medical field, but I worry about mayday. I think our area (WNC) is more isolated and this virus will creep into us over time, as opposed to the explosion in NYC. Personally, I want to see the vaccine before I resume life as usual, but I'm closing in on 60 years of age. I see why younger people would like to resume life as, well, nearly usual. But younger people die from this too.
Because of attitudes like yours, I won't go for my check up this year (my doc is young and younger people are seemingly ready to make us all sick), I'll skip my 6 month dental cleaning (for the same reason), and won't go for prescription glasses which I do need. Lastly, a friend and I are doing a sort of tag team grocery curbside pick up: what one store doesn't have, one of us will get from another, via online ordering, rather than taking my son up on his offer to shop for me since people are not following the rules in grocery stores.
I don't think we'll be overrun by this thing, but I think the worst for WNC is yet to come. Not worse like larger cities, but worse than we have now. I think they'll be rolling deaths over time until a vaccine is available.
Just a question: if there's such a limited impact, why are hospitals here (such as Pardee) asking for donations of masks, sanitizer, etc? I'm genuinely asking because you're in the field.
I'm not in the medical field, but I worry about mayday. I think our area (WNC) is more isolated and this virus will creep into us over time, as opposed to the explosion in NYC. Personally, I want to see the vaccine before I resume life as usual, but I'm closing in on 60 years of age. I see why younger people would like to resume life as, well, nearly usual. But younger people die from this too.
Because of attitudes like yours, I won't go for my check up this year (my doc is young and younger people are seemingly ready to make us all sick), I'll skip my 6 month dental cleaning (for the same reason), and won't go for prescription glasses which I do need. Lastly, a friend and I are doing a sort of tag team grocery curbside pick up: what one store doesn't have, one of us will get from another, via online ordering, rather than taking my son up on his offer to shop for me since people are not following the rules in grocery stores.
I don't think we'll be overrun by this thing, but I think the worst for WNC is yet to come. Not worse like larger cities, but worse than we have now. I think they'll be rolling deaths over time until a vaccine is available.
Just a question: if there's such a limited impact, why are hospitals here (such as Pardee) asking for donations of masks, sanitizer, etc? I'm genuinely asking because you're in the field.
I understand your concern, and please consider this reply in the tone of utmost respect and empathy.
"I think our area (WNC) is more isolated and this virus will creep into us over time, as opposed to the explosion in NYC."
This is exactly what we want and need to happen (and is happening). The virus will come. People will either be immune, they will asymptomatic, or they will get sick. We are remote enough that our 'curve' was built in and we were in a good position to avoid mayhem. Our ED census is at an all-time sustained low (for better AND worse). People are scared to step foot in an ED and use it as their Urgent Care (good). Our new Mission Main ED is a 110 'bed' emergency department. Before this hysteria started, you could spot check during any point of a normal day and have 60-80 beds filled. During Flu season Jan-late Feb, we saw surge to 100-110+ patients +heavy WR times. Our regional ED's follow the same trends.
Our current ED spot check for the last 3-4 weeks will yield you 6-15 patients at any given time, usually trending closer to the lower number. Why is this important?
"Just a question: if there's such a limited impact, why are hospitals here (such as Pardee) asking for donations of masks, sanitizer, etc? I'm genuinely asking because you're in the field."
Being short on PPE supplies and ICU ventilators has no correlation to the actual real impact being seen on the ground in our area by Covid19. For years, hospital systems have been running thin margins (another discussion - not defending them) and have to make difficult decisions. Put money into excess emergency PPE and ventilator systems that will probably cycle out (decay) before truly being used or needed, or put money into more traditional day to day care and needs. This is a problem nationwide, but is most acute in dense cities and rural hospitals. We don't have that issue at Mission because of HCA (again - not defending). In fact, we have an enormous stock-pile of ventilators that we are sharing out to hotspots.
The limited impact: we have lab tested a tiny amount Covid19 suspected patients in the last 24 hours (less than 6). We have lab tested less than 30 in the last 72 hours. In that same time, we have lab tested 21 Flu A/B suspected patients and we're not even in Flu season anymore. During this time of new positives, that brings our total Covid positives close to 40 patients. In all of Buncombe county. Think about that for a second in comparison to the fear you are feeling.
"Personally, I want to see the vaccine before I resume life as usual, but I'm closing in on 60 years of age. I see why younger people would like to resume life as, well, nearly usual. But younger people die from this too. "
You are going to shelter in your home for a year and a half plus? There is already talk of a Covid19 mutation happening which would make the vaccine impossible or even further into the future. Of the 3 deaths in Buncombe, all were elderly and/or heavily compromised. On the other hand, a young healthy child died of Flu A/B in Buncombe earlier this year.
"Because of attitudes like yours, I won't go for my check up this year (my doc is young and younger people are seemingly ready to make us all sick), I'll skip my 6 month dental cleaning (for the same reason), and won't go for prescription glasses which I do need. Lastly, a friend and I are doing a sort of tag team grocery curbside pick up: what one store doesn't have, one of us will get from another, via online ordering, rather than taking my son up on his offer to shop for me since people are not following the rules in grocery stores."
Did you react the same way to the H1N1 virus in 2008-2009? Do you even remember it? That virus infected 60 million Americans, hospitalized 300k, and killed 12-14 thousand people. For all the reasons that Covid19 is in fact different than the H1N1, there are a lot of similarities. To help understand how it was similar and different: https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm.
On top of all of this, we are on the back nine of this epidemic. For the same reasons that NYC is declining in cases, the rest of the country will follow this track. Stay at home (to an extent) has helped and it's time to start winding it down. You can't hide forever. Herd immunity is critical, and we have passed the apex of this disease. One size fits all stay-at-home orders aren't appropriate and we need to be looking to a smart, phased re-opening of WNC because it's the right thing to do. Immune compromised and at risk populations should stay isolated and protected. The rest of us are ready and fit to begin rebuilding.
Last edited by evensen007; 04-16-2020 at 03:36 PM..
Well, I've had a vodka tonic so I'll come back tomorrow to reply to your good points (ya know...tonic has quinine...lol...kidding!). But, for the record, I'm not afraid...you asked about my fear. Honestly, I'm not afraid when I put my seat belt on, and I'm not afraid when I do the socially responsible thing: distancing. It's just smart.
But for now, well, best for me to come back tomorrow.
I understand your concern, and please consider this reply in the tone of utmost respect and empathy.
"I think our area (WNC) is more isolated and this virus will creep into us over time, as opposed to the explosion in NYC."
This is exactly what we want and need to happen (and is happening). The virus will come. People will either be immune, they will asymptomatic, or they will get sick. We are remote enough that our 'curve' was built in and we were in a good position to avoid mayhem. Our ED census is at an all-time sustained low (for better AND worse). People are scared to step foot in an ED and use it as their Urgent Care (good). Our new Mission Main ED is a 110 'bed' emergency department. Before this hysteria started, you could spot check during any point of a normal day and have 60-80 beds filled. During Flu season Jan-late Feb, we saw surge to 100-110+ patients +heavy WR times. Our regional ED's follow the same trends.
Our current ED spot check for the last 3-4 weeks will yield you 6-15 patients at any given time, usually trending closer to the lower number. Why is this important?
"Just a question: if there's such a limited impact, why are hospitals here (such as Pardee) asking for donations of masks, sanitizer, etc? I'm genuinely asking because you're in the field."
Being short on PPE supplies and ICU ventilators has no correlation to the actual real impact being seen on the ground in our area by Covid19. For years, hospital systems have been running thin margins (another discussion - not defending them) and have to make difficult decisions. Put money into excess emergency PPE and ventilator systems that will probably cycle out (decay) before truly being used or needed, or put money into more traditional day to day care and needs. This is a problem nationwide, but is most acute in dense cities and rural hospitals. We don't have that issue at Mission because of HCA (again - not defending). In fact, we have an enormous stock-pile of ventilators that we are sharing out to hotspots.
The limited impact: we have lab tested a tiny amount Covid19 suspected patients in the last 24 hours (less than 6). We have lab tested less than 30 in the last 72 hours. In that same time, we have lab tested 21 Flu A/B suspected patients and we're not even in Flu season anymore. During this time of new positives, that brings our total Covid positives close to 40 patients. In all of Buncombe county. Think about that for a second in comparison to the fear you are feeling.
"Personally, I want to see the vaccine before I resume life as usual, but I'm closing in on 60 years of age. I see why younger people would like to resume life as, well, nearly usual. But younger people die from this too. "
You are going to shelter in your home for a year and a half plus? There is already talk of a Covid19 mutation happening which would make the vaccine impossible or even further into the future. Of the 3 deaths in Buncombe, all were elderly and/or heavily compromised. On the other hand, a young healthy child died of Flu A/B in Buncombe earlier this year.
"Because of attitudes like yours, I won't go for my check up this year (my doc is young and younger people are seemingly ready to make us all sick), I'll skip my 6 month dental cleaning (for the same reason), and won't go for prescription glasses which I do need. Lastly, a friend and I are doing a sort of tag team grocery curbside pick up: what one store doesn't have, one of us will get from another, via online ordering, rather than taking my son up on his offer to shop for me since people are not following the rules in grocery stores."
Did you react the same way to the H1N1 virus in 2008-2009? Do you even remember it? That virus infected 60 million Americans, hospitalized 300k, and killed 12-14 thousand people. For all the reasons that Covid19 is in fact different than the H1N1, there are a lot of similarities. To help understand how it was similar and different: https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm.
On top of all of this, we are on the back nine of this epidemic. For the same reasons that NYC is declining in cases, the rest of the country will follow this track. Stay at home (to an extent) has helped and it's time to start winding it down. You can't hide forever. Herd immunity is critical, and we have passed the apex of this disease. One size fits all stay-at-home orders aren't appropriate and we need to be looking to a smart, phased re-opening of WNC because it's the right thing to do. Immune compromised and at risk populations should stay isolated and protected. The rest of us are ready and fit to begin rebuilding.
This virus is impacting people of ALL ages and people of ALL ages are dying, including those that were healthy. There will likely be a vaccine, treatment, and/or vaccine within the next year or so. The risk is far too great to resume a 'normal' lifestyle. Just because there are fewer cases in an area doesn't mean that you can't still catch it and possibly die. This horiffic event will eventually end, but until then, the safest thing to do is to live a risk-avoidance lifestyle, as much as possible. If you decide not to, that's up to you, but please wear a mask and observe social distancing, since there are some of us who don't want to possibly end up on a ventilator struggling to breathe, and possibly die.
This virus is impacting people of ALL ages and people of ALL ages are dying, including those that were healthy. There will likely be a vaccine, treatment, and/or vaccine within the next year or so. The risk is far too great to resume a 'normal' lifestyle. Just because there are fewer cases in an area doesn't mean that you can't still catch it and possibly die. This horiffic event will eventually end, but until then, the safest thing to do is to live a risk-avoidance lifestyle, as much as possible. If you decide not to, that's up to you, but please wear a mask and observe social distancing, since there are some of us who don't want to possibly end up on a ventilator struggling to breathe, and possibly die.
Liz,
I was going to formulate a thoughtful response, but this was so lazy, hysterical, and reactionary that I won't even bother. Nothing I carefully and purposefully wrote previously was even considered by you so there's no use. No, I will not and do not wear a mask. Come find me in line at Trader Joe's and ask me.
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I am anxious to get out but I know it's not going to look like the old normal and I really don't know what the new normal will look like or if I'll be comfortable going along right away. I don't have any answers but honestly nothing I've heard or read makes me think - aha! that's how we're going to do this.
