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Old 02-09-2014, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,633 posts, read 12,347,428 times
Reputation: 5248

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughbay View Post
Yes, and then Billy signed it into law.
And what negative affects have come from this trade agreement with Canada and Mexico?

 
Old 02-09-2014, 05:05 PM
 
361 posts, read 923,995 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
And what negative affects have come from this trade agreement with Canada and Mexico?
You gotta be kidding me. The AFL-CIO routinely cites NAFTA as one of the biggest disasters for organized labor in the last 50 years. This is an example taken from a union page in my state:

Maine AFL CIO : NAFTA and Free Trade

I think you'd be hard presses to argue that NAFTA was a good idea for working class folks.
 
Old 02-09-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,633 posts, read 12,347,428 times
Reputation: 5248
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughbay View Post
You gotta be kidding me. The AFL-CIO routinely cites NAFTA as one of the biggest disasters for organized labor in the last 50 years. This is an example taken from a union page in my state:

Maine AFL CIO : NAFTA and Free Trade

I think you'd be hard presses to argue that NAFTA was a good idea for working class folks.
This is a biased union article blaming NAFTA for everything that's occurred and I don't buy it myself. No politicians of either party has done anything too change it, so I don't see that you've proved your point.

I really benefitted from the 90's economy, and most of the outsourcing happened in the last decade. I've even heard manufacturing has closed in Mexico and sent to China.
 
Old 02-09-2014, 05:16 PM
 
361 posts, read 923,995 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
This is a biased union article blaming NAFTA for everything that's occurred and I don't buy it myself. No politicians of either party has done anything too change it, so I don't see that you've proved your point.

I really benefitted from the 90's economy, and most of the outsourcing happened in the last decade. I've even heard manufacturing has closed in Mexico and sent to China.
Blind faith.
 
Old 02-09-2014, 05:20 PM
 
85 posts, read 151,687 times
Reputation: 103
Here you go. A lose for us. Not sure why you feel otherwise.

U.S. Jobs Were Lost:

Since labor is cheaper in Mexico, many manufacturing industries moved part of their production from high-cost U.S. states. Between 1994 and 2010, the U.S. trade deficits with Mexico totaled $97.2 billion, displacing 682,900 U.S. jobs. (However, 116,400 occurred after 2007, and could have been a result of the financial crisis.)
Nearly 80% of the losses were in manufacturing. California, New York, Michigan and Texas were hit the hardest because they had high concentrations of the industries that moved plants to Mexico. These industries included motor vehicles, textiles, computers, and electrical appliances. (Source: Economic Policy Institute, "The High Cost of Free Trade," May 3, 2011)

U.S. Wages Were Suppressed:

Not all companies in these industries moved to Mexico. The ones that used the threat of moving during union organizing drives. When it became a choice between joining the union or losing the factory, workers chose the factory. Without union support, the workers had little bargaining power. This suppressed wage growth. Between 1993 and 1995, 50% of all companies in the industries that were moving to Mexico used the threat of closing the factory. By 1999, that rate had grown to 65%.
Mexico's Farmers Were Put Out of Business:

Thanks to NAFTA, Mexico lost 1.3 million farm jobs. The 2002 Farm Bill subsidized U.S. agribusiness by as much as 40% of net farm income. When NAFTA removed tariffs, corn and other grains were exported to Mexico below cost. Rural Mexican farmers could not compete. At the same time, Mexico reduced its subsidies to farmers from 33.2% of total farm income in 1990 to 13.2% in 2001. Most of those subsidies went to Mexico's large farms, anyway.(Source: International Forum on Globalization, Exposing the Myth of Free Trade, February 25, 2003; The Economist, Tariffs and Tortillas, January 24, 2008)
Maquiladora Workers Were Exploited:

NAFTA expanded the maquiladora program, in which U.S.-owned companies employed Mexican workers near the border to cheaply assemble products for export to the U.S. This grew to 30% of Mexico's labor force. These workers have "no labor rights or health protections, workdays stretch out 12 hours or more, and if you are a woman, you could be forced to take a pregnancy test when applying for a job," according to Continental Social Alliance. (Source: Worldpress.org, Lessons of NAFTA, April 20, 2001)
Mexico's Environment Deteriorated:

In response to NAFTA competitive pressure, Mexico agribusiness used more fertilizers and other chemicals, costing $36 billion per year in pollution. Rural farmers expanded into more marginal land, resulting in deforestation at a rate of 630,000 hectares per year. (Source: Carnegie Endowment, NAFTA's Promise and Reality, 2004)
NAFTA Called for Free Access for Mexican Trucks:

Another agreement within NAFTA has not been implemented. NAFTA would have allowed trucks from Mexico to travel within the United States beyond the current 20-mile commercial zone limit. A demonstration project by the Department of Transportation (DoT) was set up to review the practicality of this. In 2008, the House of Representatives terminated this project, and prohibited the DoT from allowing this provision of NAFTA to ever be implemented without Congressional approval.
Congress was concerned that Mexican trucks would have presented a road hazard. They are not subject to the same safety standards as U.S. trucks. In addition, this portion of NAFTA was opposed by the U.S. truckers' organizations and companies, who would have lost business. Currently, Mexican trucks must stop at the 20-mile limit and have their goods transferred to U.S. trucks.

There was also a question of reciprocity. The NAFTA agreement would also have allowed unlimited access for U.S. trucks throughout Mexico. A similar agreement works well between the other NAFTA partner, Canada. However, U.S. trucks are larger and carry heavier loads. This violates size and weight restrictions imposed by the Mexican government. (Article updated August 26, 2013)
 
Old 02-09-2014, 05:21 PM
 
85 posts, read 151,687 times
Reputation: 103
So, tell me again, how was NAFTA "good"?
 
Old 02-09-2014, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,633 posts, read 12,347,428 times
Reputation: 5248
NAFTA Good for Farmers, Good for America | Office of the United States Trade Representative

Dad always said if one seeks out the negative they will surely succeed. Seems you've done well, but I won't buy your argument that it caused ALL outsourcing.
 
Old 02-09-2014, 06:08 PM
 
5,680 posts, read 10,359,134 times
Reputation: 43791
Off-topic for Work & Employment. Pro/anti union debates belong in Politics & Other Controversies.

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