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Old 12-03-2016, 11:04 AM
 
50,721 posts, read 36,411,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Or maybe it just says she is miffed that she isn't being talked about for a Cabinet position.
She actually was, Veterans Affairs. I just love how you guys turn on each other if they dare disagree with the current party line.

I don't think Palin really cares about being in politics, or she wouldn't have resigned as governor. She makes a lot more money on the fringes. I think she really feels betrayed and maybe even used, because he assured her she could tell conservatives he was, indeed sufficiently conservative, and she did just that, stood next to him and promised a roomful of conservatives they could trust her on this, and the first thing he did showed the opposite.

Again, my belief in his sincerity would be significantly boosted if he came out today and said he was bringing his tie factory from China to Michigan, or that he was going to stop today using Chinese steel in favor of U.S. steel for his buildings. I am not against his success, I want him to succeed because I live here too, as do all my grand-nieces and nephews. I vowed to give him a chance after he got elected, but this is just one of several things that just reinforce my fear that he's just a brilliant con man.

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 12-03-2016 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,137 posts, read 17,474,280 times
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As the talk increased of $15 HR Walmart in Irvine put in 20 self check out at that same time cause and effect folks.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:08 AM
 
34,007 posts, read 17,035,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teckeeee View Post
As the talk increased of $15 HR Walmart in Irvine put in 20 self check out at that same time cause and effect folks.

added 10 more at my local WM, too.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:09 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,202,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I don't you're right, I am going by Pundits for that...however I am very sure if Trump had arranged some deal that they promised to stay for 30 years, he would have been crowing (or rather, tweeting) about it.

here's the other points: The parts of the Carrier deal Trump doesn't want to talk about | MSNBC
Your article cites:
A source with knowledge of the state’s negotiation with Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, said the deal would grant the parent company of Carrier Corp. $7 million in financial incentives over 10 years in exchange for a guarantee that the air and heating conditioning company would retain at least 1,000 jobs and invest $16 million into its Indiana operation.

Carrier confirmed Thursday that “the state of Indiana has offered Carrier a $7 million package over multiple years, contingent upon factors including employment, job retention and capital investment.”


I'm not sure how your pundits are saying it only keeps 800 jobs here when this source says it requires "at least" 1000.

And it's tax abatements. Indiana is not "giving" them money, they are simply "taking" less than they otherwise would have.

And simple math shows that if the company is investing $16 million in a plant it had intended to close, and gets $7 million in tax breaks, that's a positive $9 million flowing into Indiana.

While you can whine that Carrier is still shipping 1300 jobs to Mexico (600 from this plant, the 1300 figure counts 700 from another plant), how is that not better from the 2300 jobs that would have been exported otherwise?

You can poke holes and throw darts because the deal is not perfect and doesn't require total capitulation from Carrier, but it is a deal. It is an attempt to stop the exporting of jobs. It shows that someone actually gives a crap and is trying to get plants to stay here.

While Trump did indicate on the campaign trail that he prefers a "stick rather than a carrot" approach, keep in mind that Trump is not in office yet and does not have a stick yet. By the time he does, Carrier would have been gone.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:12 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,202,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Again, my belief in his sincerity would be significantly boosted if he came out today and said he was bringing his tie factory from China to Michigan, or that he was going to stop today using Chinese steel in favor of U.S. steel for his buildings. I am not against his success, I want him to succeed because I live here too, as do all my grand-nieces and nephews. I vowed to give him a chance after he got elected, but this is just one of several things that just reinforce my feeling that he's just a brilliant con man.
I thought he was supposed to step back from his businesses and not be involved with them now? Do you guys want him to continue running his businesses or not?
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teckeeee View Post
As the talk increased of $15 HR Walmart in Irvine put in 20 self check out at that same time cause and effect folks.
The real 'cause and effect' is the exodus of people who shop at Walmart, particularly in areas where there are options, such as Winco, an employee owned store that pays it's employees better than Walmart, has cheaper prices and funds employees pensions. A few months ago a Winco store open across the street from Walmart, and it's sure easier to find a parking place at Walmart than it used to be
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Your article cites:
A source with knowledge of the state’s negotiation with Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, said the deal would grant the parent company of Carrier Corp. $7 million in financial incentives over 10 years in exchange for a guarantee that the air and heating conditioning company would retain at least 1,000 jobs and invest $16 million into its Indiana operation.
Carrier confirmed Thursday that “the state of Indiana has offered Carrier a $7 million package over multiple years, contingent upon factors including employment, job retention and capital investment.”

I'm not sure how your pundits are saying it only keeps 800 jobs here when this source says it requires "at least" 1000.
And it's tax abatements. Indiana is not "giving" them money, they are simply "taking" less than they otherwise would have.
And simple math shows that if the company is investing $16 million in a plant it had intended to close, and gets $7 million in tax breaks, that's a positive $9 million flowing into Indiana.
While you can whine that Carrier is still shipping 1300 jobs to Mexico (600 from this plant, the 1300 figure counts 700 from another plant), how is that not better from the 2300 jobs that would have been exported otherwise?
You can poke holes and throw darts because the deal is not perfect and doesn't require total capitulation from Carrier, but it is a deal. It is an attempt to stop the exporting of jobs. It shows that someone actually gives a crap and is trying to get plants to stay here.
While Trump did indicate on the campaign trail that he prefers a "stick rather than a carrot" approach, keep in mind that Trump is not in office yet and does not have a stick yet. By the time he does, Carrier would have been gone.
But I thought we weren't supposed to use taxpayer money to pick winners and losers

"Of course it wasn't so long ago that Republicans were attacking the Obama White House for its "crony capitalism," including the auto bailouts and clean energy investments in firms like Solyndra. Republicans, on the other hand, were supposedly stalwarts for competitive capitalism and vehemently against government "picking winners and losers." Some even said they were "pro-market" rather than "pro-business."
The bad economics of Trump's Carrier deal

"When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent," she wrote Friday in a "Young Conservatives" column. "Meanwhile, the invisible hand that best orchestrates a free people's free enterprise system gets amputated. Then, special interests creep in and manipulate markets." "Republicans oppose this, remember? Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail," Palin added." Trump supporter Sarah Palin calls Carrier deal 'crony capitalism' - CNNPolitics.com
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
I thought he was supposed to step back from his businesses and not be involved with them now? Do you guys want him to continue running his businesses or not?
not to mention he owns stock in Carrier's parent company...hmm

Donald Trump Had Investments in Carrier Corp.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:22 AM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,577,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I already gave you the link which shows that the Big Mac costs less in France, UK, Denmark and Australia than America after you claimed it was super expensive to buy a burger and fries there. Are you open to the possibility that the threats of mass unemployment and huge price increases could be corporate propaganda? Is it possible? Remember, 90% of all media in America is owned by just 6 corporations with a vested interests in keeping workers desperate and financially insecure.

What is the price of prescription drugs, child care, higher education and air fares in Borger, Texas? What is the public transit like in Borger, Texas? America is really not that cheap, even in Borger, Texas. Cost of living is high everywhere in America and the minimum wage should reflect that. $15 an hour by 2020 should be the bare minimum floor and let other states push for higher levels (the bay area should be at least $20 an hour).

The question we have have to ask ourselves is whether our government should serve the people or the donor class. That is the big question. So far, the people seem to support the idea that the donor class should get first priority and the working class should suffer. But how long can this go on? We know we are heading for 4 more years of increased inequality and with increased inequality comes weakened democracy as the donor class will have even more power to buy the political system and rig the economy to their advantage.
You have painted the picture in black and white - big business/donor class vs the common man. I have lived and worked in this country for many years and I don't see things in such polar terms.

The market works as an efficient allocator of resources. Companies don't "win" or 'lose" by raising their costs they simply report less profit their stock prices decline, their shareholders lose out and in the case of McDonalds maybe some marginal franchisees close (i.e less employment).

The market (capitalism), Big Business, etc. is not the problem, it is the solution.

The government's role, often highly debated, is to promote the general welfare - sure raise the minimum wage. Immediate benefit to millions of working class, probably some hurt by corporations and shareholders who can live with it but at the same time encourage further hiring. It is the government's job to set these things and manage them, not corporations. Don't demonize McDonalds or Starbuck or even Apple for being successful and following the law.

The Mirage is the problem-free [I]Living Wage[/i] - it is nothing but a economically punishing regulation that will lead to lower employment and encourage more black-market labor . One that will disproportionately punish large employers. Let the Feds set a minimum and the states can raise it if they like - just like it is now.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Cite? I didn't realize you had access to the terms and details of the deal.
"The real number is 800. To get the higher number, Carrier and Trump are counting 300 jobs that weren't at risk of being shipped to Mexico. Carrier confirmed to CNNMoney on Friday that it never planned to move 300 administrative and engineering positions. Those jobs are at a different Indianapolis location, separate from the plant with the 1,400 factory worker jobs that has been in the headlines recently. Under the deal with Trump, Carrier agreed to keep the furnace part of the plant open, saving 800 jobs in Indianapolis. But it's still moving 600 jobs to Mexico to make fan coils".
Trump supporter Sarah Palin calls Carrier deal 'crony capitalism' - CNNPolitics.com
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