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Old 12-03-2016, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,912,657 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
You have painted the picture in black and white - big business/donor class vs the common man. I have lived and worked in this country for many years and I don't see things in such polar terms.

The market works as an efficient allocator of resources. Companies don't "win" or 'lose" by raising their costs they simply report less profit their stock prices decline, their shareholders lose out and in the case of McDonalds maybe some marginal franchisees close (i.e less employment).

The market (capitalism), Big Business, etc. is not the problem, it is the solution.

The government's role, often highly debated, is to promote the general welfare - sure raise the minimum wage. Immediate benefit to millions of working class, probably some hurt by corporations and shareholders who can live with it but at the same time encourage further hiring. It is the government's job to set these things and manage them, not corporations. Don't demonize McDonalds or Starbuck or even Apple for being successful and following the law.

The Mirage is the problem-free [I]Living Wage[/i] - it is nothing but a economically punishing regulation that will lead to lower employment and encourage more black-market labor . One that will disproportionately punish large employers. Let the Feds set a minimum and the states can raise it if they like - just like it is now.
So should we lower wages and expect prices to go down ceteris parabus? I mean that's what I get from this argument. Please, correct me if I am wrong there.

But let's not forget the lesson of The Great Recession. Remember, gas actually went up in 2008-10 (2008 source The Balance) dramatically causing the prices of almost all goods and services to go up. Your $7 corner store pizza was now $10. You know what stayed flat during that time, minimum wage. The Federal Minimum Wage was $5.85 or $6.55 (after July as per the Bureau of Labor Statistics) so it wouldn't afford the $7 pizza, let alone the $10 for one hour of work without payroll taxes taken out. Most places didn't increase wages until the '10s, namely after 2013 (source: National Conference of State Legislatures Website Feedback
In fact real wages went down as wages were frozen and jobs were cut.

Ironically, the 2008 gas price increase wasn't a supply-demand surge, merely an expected one by people buying gasoline on the futures market...
Quote:
Gas Prices in 2008: Highest, Lowest, and Their Causes
The Truth About Why They Were So Volatile

By Kimberly Amadeo
Updated November 08, 2016

In 2008, during the height of the financial crisis, both gas and oil prices reached all-time highs before plummeting to record lows. That had nothing to do with the normal economic laws of supply and demand. Instead, it was how commodities traders reacted to extreme economic uncertainty.

Gas prices depend upon oil prices. That's because oil costs comprise 72% of the price of gas, with the remaining 28% coming from taxes and distribution costs.
Oil prices, in turn, are set by the free market by commodities traders. They bid on oil futures contracts every day. Usually they bid prices up when they think there is going to be more demand, like during the summer vacation driving season. They bid them down when there is less demand during the winter. For more, see How Crude Oil Prices Affect Gas Prices.

However, this open bidding system is also based on the expectations of the traders. They bid prices up or down even if they only think supply or demand will change. This creates wild swings in the price of oil and gasoline, sometimes leading to an asset bubble. They are chasing profits, regardless of actual supply and demand. This is exactly what happened in 2008.
In effect, oil pricing drives costs far more than wages. When oil goes up, people have less to spend when gas goes up as well as other services.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:28 PM
 
50,825 posts, read 36,527,673 times
Reputation: 76663
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
I thought he was supposed to step back from his businesses and not be involved with them now? Do you guys want him to continue running his businesses or not?
He's not President yet, he could do that right this second with no conflict at all. The conflicts that you mention however, especially with his foreign dealings, are quite serious and everyone in this country should be concerned with that. My nephew is a Marine and I do not want him in harm's way because he has to protect the president's foreign businesses or because he plays games with foreign leaders to gain business favors.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:31 PM
 
5,722 posts, read 5,802,860 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teckeeee View Post
As the talk increased of $15 HR Walmart in Irvine put in 20 self check out at that same time cause and effect folks.
WalMart is doing it everywhere, anyway, it has absolutely nothing to do with the minimum wage.


Also Wal-Mart has its own minimum wage anyway it doesn't go by the federal or state.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0404eb8f03b26
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,912,657 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
WalMart is doing it everywhere, anyway, it has absolutely nothing to do with the minimum wage.


Also Wal-Mart has its own minimum wage anyway it doesn't go by the federal or state.

Walmart To Hike Its Minimum Wage To $10, Raise Pay For 1.2 Million Employees | The Huffington Post
Wal-Mart does the automated kiosks because they are too lazy to realize when are big days (other than Black Friday) to have all-hands on deck. I saw this at back-to-school day eve in my area. I could walk all the way to the back, pick-up something, use the kiosk and still wait for my mother who was buying things in the normal lines because they had only six-lane open.
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:37 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,231,255 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
not to mention he owns stock in Carrier's parent company...hmm

Donald Trump Had Investments in Carrier Corp.
Is there a major corporation that a billionaire like Trump doesn't own stock in?

And it's $250,000. For cripes sake, that is pocket change to Trump.
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Sugarmill Woods , FL
6,234 posts, read 8,448,984 times
Reputation: 13809
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Is there a major corporation that a billionaire like Trump doesn't own stock in?
Conflict of interest no matter!
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:42 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,231,255 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
He's not President yet, he could do that right this second with no conflict at all. The conflicts that you mention however, especially with his foreign dealings, are quite serious and everyone in this country should be concerned with that. My nephew is a Marine and I do not want him in harm's way because he has to protect the president's foreign businesses or because he plays games with foreign leaders to gain business favors.
You can't relocate a factory in a month or two. And if Trump made any significant move at all now relating to his business he is setting himself up because if that move turns out to be beneficial in any way he will be crucified. Imagine the howling if he moved his plants here then imposed tariffs on foreign plants.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:28 PM
 
Location: not normal, IL
776 posts, read 581,120 times
Reputation: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
We know the price of everything will rise, even without a minimum wage increase. They always do. Show me some historical data comparing inflation and minimum wage increases.
-Here we have charts-
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/i...3-2015_650.jpg
http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/s...ge-nominal.jpg
http://www.economicnoise.com/wp-cont...ar1.png?x37744
"In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.[1] When the price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money*– a loss of real value in the medium of exchange and unit of account within the economy." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation-
During times of mass inflation, people's money didn't have the value it once had. The value of their money had gone down significantly, their purchasing power had sharply dropped. If you flood the markets with a steep minimum wage, purchasing power for all will be reduced. Inflation will set in, it is how it works. Look at high minimum wage areas verse low minimum wage areas. Therefore, there needs to be more constructive way of going about this than just continually playing the pawn.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:37 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,231,255 times
Reputation: 29354
Your charts do not show correlation between inflation and specific minimum wage increases. Despite erratic increases in minimum wage, often going many years without an increase, inflation has been a steady rate of increase. Furthermore, correlation is not causation. Minimum wage increases are usually done as "catch up" in response to inflation.
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Old 12-03-2016, 03:17 PM
 
50,825 posts, read 36,527,673 times
Reputation: 76663
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Is there a major corporation that a billionaire like Trump doesn't own stock in?

And it's $250,000. For cripes sake, that is pocket change to Trump.
Yes, I'm more concerned with the one million he has invested in the Dakota Pipeline.
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