Survey: Most Calif. Disney Workers Can't Afford Living Expenses (training, available, corporations)

[TaxPhd]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

It is distinctly a possibility that people can be skilled and qualified for jobs but can't actually get them because someone else has them.

Is it possible that everyone gets skilled (your original claim)? Maybe. But it certainly isn't current reality.

[Cheesesteak Cravings]

Originally Posted by bUU

False. You seem to now be vapidly grasping at straws, just to have something to say in response to moral statements for which you have no legitimate response.

I could use a couple extra bucks, would you mind sending me some for morality's sake?

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

It is distinctly a possibility that people can be skilled and qualified for jobs but can't actually get them because someone else has them.

And?

Let's assume for a moment this is true... there are 100 skilled widget makers, but only 50 jobs available. What is the problem, and how do you propose to remedy it?

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by jnojr

And?

Let's assume for a moment this is true... there are 100 skilled widget makers, but only 50 jobs available. What is the problem, and how do you propose to remedy it?

It pokes a huge hole in the everyone should get skilled theory, because if there are more skilled workers than skilled jobs, two things will happen:

-wages for skilled jobs will fall
-possibly unskilled wages will rise and low skill businesses will start closing which will sharply increase the unemployment rate, which will put more downward pressure in all wages

[ackmondual]

Originally Posted by fisheye

As far as moral or immoral managers or leadership; morality has nothing to do with it as long as they do not break our laws. When it comes to government interfering; we are the government and it is up to us to decide if we want to allocate our resources in any particular direction - that is why we have elections.

If this really were the case, then we need to get off the backs of those who found LEGAL loopholes to the system, including but not limited to...
1) it's MUCH cheaper to be on welfare. You have a sure thing, vs. racking up massive debt to get a degree and be even worse off
2) It's much better bang for the buck to run out your unemployment payments than to get a job ASAP, or work MW

And worth noting is laws change. How many dangers were there in food products before regulations came in via food safety laws? Tobacco used to be dismissed as not being an issue, but now, we're required to warn people that it's bad for you, and to prohibit marketing it to children. Etc.

Originally Posted by fisheye

I am not playing your line by line game; this thread is about low wages at Disney and not the rest of the world. As long as Disney has workers waiting to take the jobs of those that quit; they have no reason to pay higher wages. In a booming economy, with a limited worker pool; they will be forced to pay higher wages. That is the system that runs the Western world.

If you think money is the key to morality; I think your wrong. Having a strong work ethic, I feel, promotes self worth and responsibility. People will believe in themselves and their power to change. If they are not happy with a job at Disney and they want more; they sell their abilities to another company or educate themselves for better positions within their company or outside their company. They do what is necessary to survive and help those they love or care about.

And that's what always bugged me, but i know we simply won't be able to do anything about... we want people to "work hard, but do so the correct way".
The person who puts in an honest day's work in retail, MW, FF, etc. are pretty much "scum" b/c they're dead end jobs, whereas those who were born into better fortune will always be seen as "better" than them.

[ackmondual]

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

There are too many successful entrepreneurs that started with nothing to believe your false narrative.

Like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, etc. But there are many that do NOT succeed either. I woudln't tell someone to invest in lottery tickets just b/c my neighbor won

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings

Yeah, I do. Workers can step up and either help themselves, or organize and help each other. You resent the idea of people having to put effort into it.

Would you be aghast if they striked and managed to get a favorable outcome from that? That's what the WV teachers did, and it worked out FAAR better than any official methods ever would. That's one of their tools when management holds more sway.

[pvande55]

There is a Six Flags near me, and is staffed by mostly college students and retirees looking to supplement their SS. Of course, it is only open from May to October, which discourages anyone looking to make it their main job.

[Pretzelogik]

The middle class in Cali. is gone. You are either on the dole or filthy rich.

[TaxPhd]

Originally Posted by ackmondual

If this really were the case, then we need to get off the backs of those who found LEGAL loopholes to the system, including but not limited to...
1) it's MUCH cheaper to be on welfare. You have a sure thing, vs. racking up massive debt to get a degree and be even worse off
2) It's much better bang for the buck to run out your unemployment payments than to get a job ASAP, or work MW

And worth noting is laws change. How many dangers were there in food products before regulations came in via food safety laws? Tobacco used to be dismissed as not being an issue, but now, we're required to warn people that it's bad for you, and to prohibit marketing it to children. Etc.


And that's what always bugged me, but i know we simply won't be able to do anything about... we want people to "work hard, but do so the correct way".
The person who puts in an honest day's work in retail, MW, FF, etc. are pretty much "scum" b/c they're dead end jobs, whereas those who were born into better fortune will always be seen as "better" than them.

That’s a rather strange conclusion to come to.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Expecting that society does (or should) conform to your moral code is the height of arrogance.

I'm flattered that you believe that I, personally, am the author of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Bible, along with the sacred texts of the other major belief systems that I alluded to. However, you are mistaken.

I'm saying that society should "conform" to the moral code it publicly professes and venerates, rather than the immoral code that supports the perspective that you're supporting. I am also saying that to the extent that the pendulum has swung back from the pursuit of the moral vision that society publicly professes and venerates toward the more barbarous code that supports the perspective that you're supporting that that is a bad thing that should be stopped and reversed not just because it is hypocritical but also because it is less a reflection of what a human and humane society should be working towards.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Simply repeating yourself doesn’t bolster your claim.

Simply denying the publicly professed and venerated tenets of the civilization within which you live doesn't bolster your claims.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Everyday, entrepreneurs show how wrong you are.

Again, you keep responding to things no one has said because you don't have a legitimate response to what I actually am posting.

Again, there is not an unlimited capacity within the economy for people to start new businesses.

Your repeated attempt to dodge and weave the truth by ignoring specific words that make your perspective fail is not impressive. While dumbing things down in that manner may make your "logic" work, it is just a scurrilous evasion of the reality of the failings of the perspective that you are pushing.

Repeatedly advocating for a society that reduces those less fortunate than you to nothing more than gladiators competing with each other for limited opportunities that you envision yourself offering to them is immoral, as is the lack of compassion and consideration for others that is the basis of the perspective that you are advocating.

Originally Posted by charlygal

America is nowhere close to that. There are millions of unfilled jobs.

Not everyone is qualified for those jobs that remain unfilled nor have any practicable means to become qualified because of the very inadequacies of society that those touting arguments such as that continually try to deny.

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings

I could use a couple extra bucks, would you mind sending me some for morality's sake?

Your ridiculously craven attempt to distract attention away from moral points for which you have no legitimate rebuttal is noted. You might consider that sometimes, when you don't have something substantive to say in defense of what you prefer, saying nothing may do less damage to the perspective you prefer than underscoring the lack of substance of your counter-argument.

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

It pokes a huge hole in the everyone should get skilled theory, because if there are more skilled workers than skilled jobs, two things will happen:

-wages for skilled jobs will fall
-possibly unskilled wages will rise and low skill businesses will start closing which will sharply increase the unemployment rate, which will put more downward pressure in all wages

Precisely, and this isn't even as theoretical as you indicate: The wage stagnation for which the proof was provided earlier in the thread is a direct reflection of this phenomenon. Workers aren't doing less work; rather, society has fostered a situation within which work itself has been redesigned so that there is less demand for it and therefore surplus supply of it, thereby making work that previously paid enough so that those doing that work could pay their own way and secure their own future is no longer work that pays enough for that to remain the case.