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I am literally contemplating on leaving a job that I other wise like over my manager requiring that I go out with the team to eat lunch every day. This is has been an issue to me for a few reasons.
1. Cost: Not only is it expensive to eat out daily, but they also insist on splitting the tab. Some people order appetizers and drinks, so it really bothers me that I am being forced to pay for other peoples extravegence. The worst has been a situation where I ordered a 10 dollar bowl of soup and my final tab was $55.
2. Type of Food My manager considers herself a foodie. And likes to choose restaurants with very "niche" food IMO. For example, they eat at indian or ethiopian restauranets 3 days a week. I do not like this food at all. She has offered to make up for it by letting me choose 1 day a week. That still leaves 4 days a week where im paying approximately 20 dollars for food that I do not like.
3. Time The lunches typically last TWO TO THREE HOURS. This is an extremely long time to be eating out everyday. Additionally, everyone else has roles with flexible work hours. They normally come in the office around 10 to 11 and leave around 5 to 6. My role has to be in the office at 7:30 everyday. Having to eat out everyday has extended my work day an extra two hours a day as I have to make up the time on the back end.
4. Personal Time Our office is one of those trendy shared work spaces. So we are all up on eachother all day long. Most people on other teams can be seen with their head phones in reading a book or just chilling on their lunch breaks because its mentally exhausting being on display for the entire office all day long. I genuinely want to just relax during my lunch break and not be forced to interact with my manager.
5. Office Politics Every other team is working extremely long hours. Personally, I find it extremely unprofessional to go on 3 hour lunches when other teams are working to 11 at night at times. This just isnt how i like presenting myself in a professional environment.
Basically, I other wise really like my job. However, I find the whole situation about lunch extremely rude to the point that I have fired up my linkedin and want to know if i am over reacting.
My manager has sent me a big long email reprimanding me today because I chose not to go out to lunch and eat at an ethiopian restaurant. Because we are a work family and have to eat together. Her counter was that I could choose lunch 1 day a week. I find this totally unreasonable .
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Originally Posted by cpero824
I worry if i went to HR, that my manager would emotionally over react and make my current job miserable. She got unreasonably upset on me skipping out on ethiopian today.
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Originally Posted by cpero824
I told her flat out that I dont want to go. I dont like the food and i really enjoy my personal time on my breaks.
And she flat out would not budge on me having to go everyday. Her only compromise was that I could choose 1 day.
That is a hostile work environment.
I would speak with an employment law attorney first, before taking any other action. Take a copy of the e-mail with you.
You need to keep the receipts, or start organizing them from your credit/debit card transactions, because either she will be forced to reimburse you, or the company will, depending on who the court decides is responsible.
After you talk with your employment law attorney, who will offer suggestions on how to deal with upper management, you need to go over her head and have a come-to-Jesus meeting with upper management and HR and state your position, then ask what specifically what actions they intend to take in this matter. The company should offer to reimburse you, and if they don't you should ask if they intend to do so.
If they refuse to take action, then you should move forward with legal action.
You do understand a lawsuit isn't going to go anywhere, right?
Your attorney will file, then by law, they are required to hire counsel and respond, and then their attorneys will contact your attorney for an immediate settlement of the matter. If that isn't the situation, then it still won't go anywhere, because most likely you'll have court-ordered mediation. Mediation is not arbitration. Those are two totally different animals.
At mediation, your position will be her termination as an employee, or in the alternative, a written letter of reprimand for her; your reassignment to another group if possible; an injunction against any retaliatory action; reimbursement; and liquidated damages in the event of a breach of the mediated agreement.
Most courts would find $250,000 to $1 Million in liquidated damages reasonable at employment law for breach of contract in a hostile environment, so after that, if she even looked at you funny, that would be a breach of contract and you're automatically entitled to the liquidated damages, plus compensatory and punitive damages if you had to file another legal action.
I worry if i went to HR, that my manager would emotionally over react and make my current job miserable. She got unreasonably upset on me skipping out on ethiopian today.
Time to hand in your resignation letter. I'd write it tonight and hand it in Monday. Your manager seems awful. If you do work for a large enough company and you want to stay there you could request a transfer and if you do have an HR department they can put a stop to this stuff. But if you work for a smaller company there may be no way to handle the problem other than going to the owner.
Have you also considered saying "NO?"
I mean, really, just pack your lunch and say that you're going to eat it in the office. If your manager throws a fit then just continue to refuse to go out to eat (even if she wants to buy). There's no reason you should be paying $55 for lunch. You're at work to make money, not to spend it. Perhaps you could secretly record the interaction? Either way just pack your lunch and continue to eat it in the office. Refuse to go out and if they want to retaliate I think you have a case on your hands.
The only exception would be if this job were paying rediculous sums of money. If the OP is netting 200k a year after taxes and housing then I would put up with it. But if this is some mediocre payed job I would just get my own check and refuse to pay. My money is my freedom,
Ugh, even $200K a year clear would not be enough for me to deal with daily 2-3 hour lunches with the boss that are mandatory at places I don't like to eat at.
What's worse is the OP is stuck working til 8PM a lot of nights because the long lunches take away from work time. Sorry but that's no life and I can see why he is upset. I have a job that pays 6 figures (not 200 K) and put in long hours sometimes but 8PM every night is insane
Actually, it is not. This comes up periodically on the forum. The phrase "hostile work environment" is a legal standard involving discrimination against a member of a protected class (race, gender, ethnicity, religion, etc), and the actions taken against them specifically because they are in a protected class.
Unless this manager is making the OP go to lunch specifically because OP is a woman, Arabic, over 40, disabled, or whatever, this behavior does not rise to the level of hostile work environment. As the OP describes the manager requiring everybody in the work group to do it, that shows that the behavior is not directed at a class, but at a wider grouping of people arranged by job function.
Just because a manager is an idiot, or people do not like what is going on, it isn't necessarily a hostile work environment.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
I would speak with an employment law attorney first, before taking any other action. Take a copy of the e-mail with you.
With any luck the attorney will decline this as a case, as it most likely isn't actionable.
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You need to keep the receipts, or start organizing them from your credit/debit card transactions, because either she will be forced to reimburse you, or the company will, depending on who the court decides is responsible.
After you talk with your employment law attorney, who will offer suggestions on how to deal with upper management, you need to go over her head and have a come-to-Jesus meeting with upper management and HR and state your position, then ask what specifically what actions they intend to take in this matter. The company should offer to reimburse you, and if they don't you should ask if they intend to do so.
The company will say that they did not require OP to go to lunch, and they are not responsible. They will say that OP had the option of saying no, or reporting this up the management chain, or to HR. As OP did not take any steps to stop this, OP is presumably agreeable to the situation.
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If they refuse to take action, then you should move forward with legal action.
You do understand a lawsuit isn't going to go anywhere, right?
You want to spend thousands of dollars to try and recover a few hundred dollars of lunch expenditures?
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Your attorney will file, then by law, they are required to hire counsel and respond, and then their attorneys will contact your attorney for an immediate settlement of the matter. If that isn't the situation, then it still won't go anywhere, because most likely you'll have court-ordered mediation. Mediation is not arbitration. Those are two totally different animals.
You are presuming a lot here. You haven't seen the OPs employment contract. They may have signed their agreement to binding arbitration.
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At mediation, your position will be her termination as an employee, or in the alternative, a written letter of reprimand for her; your reassignment to another group if possible; an injunction against any retaliatory action; reimbursement; and liquidated damages in the event of a breach of the mediated agreement.
You can certainly ask for anything you want.
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Most courts would find $250,000 to $1 Million in liquidated damages reasonable at employment law for breach of contract in a hostile environment, so after that, if she even looked at you funny, that would be a breach of contract and you're automatically entitled to the liquidated damages, plus compensatory and punitive damages if you had to file another legal action.
Lets remember that this doesn't meet the definition of hostile work environment. Lets also recognize that your hoped for results are a fantasy. Liquidated damages have to have some grounding in reality, and $1 million for lunch is ludicrous.
You work at an anonymous Fortune 500 company, in an anonymous state (or country?), and you're on a schedule where you have deliverables into the wee hours of the night (since you arrive at work around 7:30 am and don't leave until 8 pm). You also have a boss who is demanding that you go out and eat with the team.
As others have stated, I would simply require that the company pay for lunches if they're going to go out to expensive niche restaurants on a daily basis. If you're not in a position where you can make this demand, just move on. It sounds like the company is inefficient and has incompetent people working there if you're putting in 62+ hours per week (12.5 hour days, per your timing).
Here is my take on it. Either the boss likes your work or she doesn’t. I would tell her that I’m not eating lunch with her, because I want some space. Either your work speaks for itself, or it doesn’t.
Refuse to go. Send your manager an email to that effect and copy everyone on it who is up the chain of authority from her. Attach the email she sent to you reprimanding you for skipping lunch that one time. Mention that the long lunches will interfere with your ability to complete your deliverables on time. Upper management may back you or they may back your direct manager. Either way start looking for a new job.
Management that enjoy the luxuries of high pay positions can financially swing these things. Its moronic to expect this out of the employees however. '
Quit going and find a new place to work. It sounds like another HOLE filled with lousy management
Refuse to go. Send your manager an email to that effect and copy everyone on it who is up the chain of authority from her. Attach the email she sent to you reprimanding you for skipping lunch that one time. Mention that the long lunches will interfere with your ability to complete your deliverables on time. Upper management may back you or they may back your direct manager. Either way start looking for a new job.
I'm not sure she should play that card just yet but definitely refuse to comply. Just don't participate in any drama. Simply decline any suggestions, invites, or requests to attend lunch. Don't get emotional and argumentative if she reprimands, just simply say your lunch time is your private time. Repeat it over and over if necessary but don't participate in a debate/argument over it. Let her do what she will do.
I think if the boss had the company backing on these team lunches, they would be expensable. Hmmm, do you throw cash into the kitty or do you actually pay the restaurant? Maybe she is collecting everyone's share in cash and expensing the entire lunch?
I am literally contemplating on leaving a job that I other wise like over my manager requiring that I go out with the team to eat lunch every day.
The lunches typically last TWO TO THREE HOURS. This is an extremely long time to be eating out everyday. Additionally, everyone else has roles with flexible work hours. They normally come in the office around 10 to 11 and leave around 5 to 6.
My manager has sent me a big long email reprimanding me today because I chose not to go out to lunch and eat at an ethiopian restaurant. Because we are a work family and have to eat together. Her counter was that I could choose lunch 1 day a week. I find this totally unreasonable .
I find the situation in the OP is VERY hard to believe. But who knows? There are some managers are very crazy and manipulating for sure.
My question is how can that manager manage to bring the whole team (of how many staff) to go out for lunch every day for 2 to 3 hours? That's stealing a lot of the company's working time. That way, it really affects to the work results. Don't staff in your team have enough work to do? How can the boss pay those staff 7 to 8 working hours for just to work 5 to 6 hours. Bosses are not stupid. Assuming all the staff in your team not to speak up and go along with that manager, don't employees from other departments notice it and spread the news and complain to the higher-up that their teams have to work their butts off and your team always go out for lunch everyday for 2 to 3 hours? Unbelievable.
If what you wrote were true, and you're not happy with it, I believe you have every right to report this up to the HR or to someone higher than she is. But make sure the one you report to is trustable, and you have to know how to report smartly. I would report a manager like that. I would not be afraid to be in trouble or get fired. That manager is really doing wrong.
If you don't have courage to speak up for what you think your manager doing the wrong thing and bullying you, then you will have to really suffer. How long can you suffer it? Will the situation improve itself without you speaking up? You have to be brave, stand up against the bully. No pain, no gain.
I was not in the same situation as yours. I'm quiet, work hard, don't like to go to the managers' office to talk to them much and flatter them. I only go there when I have something to talk to them about work. I was bullied badly by my direct leader at my workplace. I was very stressed out. Many employees were bullied by that leader too. That one was very controlling and playing favouritism. So we reported that leader to the HR and the ones higher than that leader. Things have improved.
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