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Russia's interference in Western elections has been well-documented. It is widely acknowledged that Kremlin has been extremely successful in information warfare in America and Britain and in dividing opinions within the EU. The EU doesn't speak in one voice against one of its gravest security concerns at all because there are just too many loopholes for Russia to manoeuvre.
If you want more evidence, look no further than Malaysian Airline MH17. More than 200 EU civilians were brutally slaughtered by militants sponsored by Russia, and what consequences has Russia suffered? None. Yes, there have been sanctions and Ruble has been laughably worthless for years, but Russia's economy has always been a joke.
Who's saying grass is greener in Russia? I am referring to Russia's manipulation in American politics. They have done incredibly well in that regard.
The same applies to China, though China's target in the West is mostly countries with large overseas Chinese communities such as Canada and Australia (and obviously Taiwan though that is beside the point). To the other countries they simply use economic might to silence them and get what they want, and the West obviously have no idea how to fight back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Invasion_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claws_of_the_Panda
Russia and China have been undermining Western democracy with its feature of freedom of expression for a very long time, especially in the past decade. Censorship isn't acceptable in the West so Russia and China happily exploit that fundamental value of liberalism. I am not arguing that Brexit or Trump were solely Russia's doing because that obviously wasn't the case, but it is hard to deny that a destablised West is what Russia wanted, and they did pour in effort in order to achieve that. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...es-to-beijing/
Udermining Western democracy and its feature of freedom of expression? In what way exaclty? I seriously doubt Russia has 'manipulated' American politics (or British politics) very much, I think the Wests sanctions against Russia is a 'bigger' consequence to Russia than you care to admit.
Udermining Western democracy and its feature of freedom of expression? In what way exaclty? I seriously doubt Russia has 'manipulated' American politics (or British politics) very much, I think the Wests sanctions against Russia is a 'bigger' consequence to Russia than you care to admit.
Right, so big that Russia sent an assassin to a Salisbury without any consideration of civilian collateral damage.
Wait what has Britain done to retaliate again? Lmao.
That said, the pandemic has shown the world the laughable ineptitude of Western leadership. People just hear the most about America, the truth is the West, collectively, have failed miserably.
It is not possible for the United States and other western countries to take the kind of draconian measures necessary to completely stop the spread of COVID-19.
Doing that would probably lead to worse social problems.
In the first pages this thread has been a classic example of 'selection bias', the author giving an example of how Russians in America complain of Putin. You can say they do so in Russia too but I mean if you go to football match in Europe ask them what they think about american football and rugby. Who you ask/where matters.
It is not possible for the United States and other western countries to take the kind of draconian measures necessary to completely stop the spread of COVID-19.
Doing that would probably lead to worse social problems.
1. Not every country with successful covid management has employed "draconian" measures. Lockdowns and curfews in certain American states/cities are far more draconian than any measure we have here.
2. Some of the covid success stories are Western countries, i.e. New Zealand and Australia.
Not that your attitude is in any way surprising. This kind of mentality is exactly why America is failing in every regard when it comes to covid management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome
Are you seriously suggesting that Britain should send somebody to Russia to poison a random stranger!! Really!? Lol
Lol @ your straw man. We all know Britain did absolutely nothing to hold Russia accountable for its egregious act of war other than expelling some diplomats.
And since you believe the sanctions are doing its job. Please enlighten me. Exactly how have Putin and his cronies suffered from these "super effective" Western sanctions? It's been more than 5 years and he is still playing you like a puppet master, lol.
Yeah, if you were "free, white and 21" a common expression back then. But there was the KKK, cross burnings, lynching, restricted neighborhoods, schools, clubs and jobs, widespread poverty and starvation, and the birth of organized crime thanks to prohibition. No unions, pensions or healthcare. Men were allowed to beat there wives. Pregnant girls were sent away to have their babies and have them adopted in secrecy. A much nicer place in the movies, maybe.
Each generation has its own problems, my parents and my husbands parents grew up during the depression and were to busy just trying to survive even if one is white and 21. Not everyone, even in the south was in the kkk. My mil talked about only having onion sandwiches and going hungry. My dad and father in law were taught never to hit women since only cowards would ever lay a hand to a woman, sadly there are still abusive marriages...
It is not possible for the United States and other western countries to take the kind of draconian measures necessary to completely stop the spread of COVID-19.
Doing that would probably lead to worse social problems.
To an extent, yes. Americans on both ends of the spectrum tend to be averse to being told what to do, and no matter what, you would have some pushback.
However, if Trump and GOP senators had taken a proactive stance in telling people to wear masks and invoked keeping america strong and healthy (Democrat leaders were already generally much more progressive in this case) and let the experts in the CDC take a more proactive role, I am sure that we would have had a much better result in keeping the virus in check.
This said, it's important not to forget that Europe also had big issues containing the virus early on and are experiencing resurgences now. A lot of this is a result of the cultures of individualism and also the lack of any serious epidemics in most people's lifetimes (versus Asia, which has had a few in the last couple decades).
1. Not every country with successful covid management has employed "draconian" measures. Lockdowns and curfews in certain American states/cities are far more draconian than any measure we have here.
2. Some of the covid success stories are Western countries, i.e. New Zealand and Australia.
Not that your attitude is in any way surprising. This kind of mentality is exactly why America is failing in every regard when it comes to covid management.
Lol @ your straw man. We all know Britain did absolutely nothing to hold Russia accountable for its egregious act of war other than expelling some diplomats.
And since you believe the sanctions are doing its job. Please enlighten me. Exactly how have Putin and his cronies suffered from these "super effective" Western sanctions? It's been more than 5 years and he is still playing you like a puppet master, lol.
Well, the Russian economy is still in dire shape, though that was because of the US-led sanctions after Crimea... However the UK's response over the assassinations was rather thin. The reason that Russia doesn't try anything like this in the US is because they know the US will retaliate much more severely (or at least, it would under a different president...). This has happened a couple times in the UK now and they've never had a serious response.
I don't think it's entirely accurate that he's playing the US or West to the extent that he's a "puppet master." The sanctions against Russia haven't lifted, most elected leaders do not have a good relationship with nor are beholden to him, etc. Most of what Russia has done is exploit existing domestic problems which were already pretty bad on their own. He isn't able to affect policy to his benefit, only chaos.
1. Not every country with successful covid management has employed "draconian" measures. Lockdowns and curfews in certain American states/cities are far more draconian than any measure we have here.
2. Some of the covid success stories are Western countries, i.e. New Zealand and Australia.
Not that your attitude is in any way surprising. This kind of mentality is exactly why America is failing in every regard when it comes to covid management.
Lol @ your straw man. We all know Britain did absolutely nothing to hold Russia accountable for its egregious act of war other than expelling some diplomats.
And since you believe the sanctions are doing its job. Please enlighten me. Exactly how have Putin and his cronies suffered from these "super effective" Western sanctions? It's been more than 5 years and he is still playing you like a puppet master, lol.
Britain did nothing? What do you suggest it does? Send over some nuclear warheads? Declare all out war? Murder some innocent Russian civilians? Murder a British subject living in Moscow? Write a strong letter of complaint? Seriously you tell me in what way is he 'playing me like a puppet master' exactly? Your 'my dad is bigger than your dad' post is juvenile.
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