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My point was about opportunities (to me), is what makes a nation great, since it's the individual who is the engine of greatness. Canada and the US are two such nations who offer a vast array of opportunities... and that was my GREATER point about the similar nature of our two nations.
Cession is always about dissatisfaction with centralized governance. Real cession is taxpayer driven, not by anarchists or elites.
I can understand that in the general sense, but you did say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn
I going with... this is sarcasm. Go to Alberta, it's not very liberal at all.
The political divide is usually associated with urban and rural in both the US and Canada.
Alberta being "not very liberal at all" doesn't really tie specifically into what you're talking about with opportunities and taxpayer-driven secession. It's also odd because if you're coming from the US perspective of what policies are and are not liberal, then Alberta is pretty far to the left on many issues that are highly contentious and of great impact in the US, but aren't in Alberta.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-01-2020 at 12:36 PM..
Things like healthcare costs, childcare costs and higher education costs are oftentimes much lower while ability to get around without incurring the costs of vehicle ownership is often quite better in other developed countries. Meanwhile, though homes may be smaller on average in most other developed countries, home ownership rates and homelessness rates don't seem to correlate with median home size or median costs per sq ft among developed countries. There are even small things like better school lunches in terms of taste and nutritional value and arguably better food standards in general.
So, it generally seems to boil down to the following:
If you're comfortable paying more for higher education, healthcare and childcare, then go with the United States.
If you're comfortable paying more for consumer goods, housing and paying more taxes, then go with developed countries other than the United States.
If you're comfortable paying more for higher education and healthcare, then go with the United States.
If you're comfortable spending more for consumer goods, housing and paying more taxes, then go with developed countries other than the United States.
No, I think that leaves out many other major differences. This level of reductionism seems kind of goofy to me. Hell, it's not even particularly truly in some cases for housing (unless you mean specifically median housing costs per square foot measured against median income irrespective of where that house is within the country) with also some differences in taxes and certain consumer goods. The higher cost of higher education and healthcare in the US is for the most part true across the board.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-01-2020 at 12:34 PM..
LOL no I do not. Never has been and never will be as I don't believe in any non sense like "greatest xxxx"
This country has so many issues and problems I am beginning to wonder if it was a huge flawed experiment to begin with. Handing so much power to tiny states with less population than my city is wrong and flawed.
The founders should have went with a parliamentary system and never bothered with wasteful state govts.
County govt and fed govt as Hamilton wanted should have been it. Then way more national policies instead of the anarchy of 50 different little sovereign republics.
Time to break it up and start over with smaller regionally based countries. Too big and unwieldy at this point to even function. Far too polarized regionally with red states constantly at odds with blue states. It is a total mess here.
I completely agree. This country was never meant to be this big, and divided by red and blue states. Right there is about as clear as can get. All these states do not belong in the same country. All these states with so many differences it's a disgrace. It would be one thing if the US was a functioning society,but it's Far from it. Far to many forms of govt. Yes break it up and start the hell over. If the US is the greatest at anything it's time came and went. Now it's basically a very troubled country, with a Braggart attitude.
China is an ancient country, and has lots of unique and interesting history and philosophy, however the Chinese are currently not that great in terms of democracy and freedom, and they have even forced people out of rural areas and in to vast polluted cities.
As for the cheap consumer goods, they can be produced in most economies where labour is cheap and Vietnam, Indonesia, India etc are also increasingly producing such goods.
I don't see what is going on in China and Hong Kong as being that great, and then you have the disgusting medieval type wet markets and the fact that recent pandemics have all been associated with China.
Then you have Human Rights issues and problems with Chinese hacking which have caused a further rift with the west in relation to Huawei, and there are numerous other such issues such as the manipulation of currency and China's claim to Taiwan as well as disputes with Japan etc.
There is a lot that is not that great about Modern China and it's ruling totalitarian Government.
I understand your points, and I was suspecting a response such as this one. However, all great civilizations have been guilty of oppressing other groups. What constitutes "greatness," is also very subjective.
I completely agree. This country was never meant to be this big, and divided by red and blue states. Right there is about as clear as can get. All these states do not belong in the same country. All these states with so many differences it's a disgrace. It would be one thing if the US was a functioning society,but it's Far from it. Far to many forms of govt. Yes break it up and start the hell over. If the US is the greatest at anything it's time came and went. Now it's basically a very troubled country, with a Braggart attitude.
Yes, I think it would be better off if each state became its own independent nation, like the former Soviet Union did. I actually like Georgia despite all its flaws, but I think one of the worst things about it is that it's part of the United States and is culturally American just like everywhere else. When I was younger I wanted to move to California because I thought it would be different, only to find out its the same BS (especially in San Diego since it's a military town with people from all over the US). Hawaii is actually the only state that actually felt like a different country, more like Japan than America.
Yes, I think it would be better off if each state became its own independent nation, like the former Soviet Union did. I actually like Georgia despite all its flaws, but I think one of the worst things about it is that it's part of the United States and is culturally American just like everywhere else. When I was younger I wanted to move to California because I thought it would be different, only to find out its the same BS (especially in San Diego since it's a military town with people from all over the US). Hawaii is actually the only state that actually felt like a different country, more like Japan than America.
San Diego isn't particularly representative of California, and I think there are several specific areas of the country that are quite distinct from each other though I agree Hawaii is a particular outlier.
It was more universally great in the late 40s and early 50s, especially given most of the world cities were in rubble. Any later than that and I'd probably have been picketing against Robert Moses. For me, NYC in the 20s would have been the best time to live. IMO QoL is shot -for me- because I don't like driving nor do I like big (I prefer small and maintainable, I never want to own a house nor a yard again). Our cities are not in great shape right now after Covid and the riots which really sucks for an urban person like me.
But at least the pay is high! I could not afford to do the things I do if I wasn't working in NYC/California/Washington/whatever other city in America that has good tech jobs.
I actually had the thought the other day that if NYC somehow became a city-state, DeBlasio wouldn't have been legally allowed to become the mayor I'd vote for succession and heavy rework on the government. Not sure what to do about AOC...
Japan is the best country to live in. That's also one country where people are not emigrating to the US in droves. The Japanese population in the US has been dwindling, which is unfortunate.
The Japanese population is dwindling in their own country, too. It has almost the lowest birth.rate in the world. And their program to bring ethnic Japanese Brazilian immigrants back a few years ago, didn't work out, as they could not culturally assimilate to Japan. Tasks like Japanese nursing home care are already being done by robots, or by Filipina women.
I can see Puerto Rico being the first successful separatist movement. Within Canada, I'd think that Quebec, then Newfoundland and Labour, and then Nunavut would have far better chances of happening within our lifetimes. Alberta separatism is going to have a really tough time because it's had and continues to have very limited support within Alberta itself, is still Anglo-Canada for the most part and pretty centrally located so the larger Canadian government would be pretty against it, and their tar sand money isn't going to stretch very far since it necessarily requires high oil prices to be profitable--meanwhile, there's a chance the world head's heavily towards electrification whether via batteries or fuel cells. The worst thing about the tar sand money is that Alberta has banked very little of it into sovereign wealth funds the way that many other places have and I've come across estimates for environmental cleanup that are even larger than the Alberta sovereign wealth fund. The complete decimation of oil prices in 2020 probably puts a huge damper on any calls for independence, because much of it was about trying to keep more of extraction wealth within the states, and is much more nakedly a ploy to have the funding equalization scheme reworked than an actual call for separation. That's all been obliterated now by the vast drop in oil prices that are unlikely to get back to levels that make tar sands lucrative for a while or possibly ever. Your article was from late 2019 and even then it amounted to very little as it's the same posturing on equalization payments as it was for a long while, and now it's a whole new era in oil prices.
Besides, Alberta's supposedly conservative politics are still in many ways much more aligned with what many in the US would consider left-wing politics. Nationalized healthcare, strong gun control laws, equalized funding for public schools, very cheap public universities which are also generally the more prestigious ones compared to private universities, abortion rights, separation of church and state, strong anti-discrimination employment laws, strong public sector, vast investments in mass transit and urban design that facilitates less car usage and drive urbanization (Calgary and Edmonton both have incredibly large mass transit systems for cities of their size compared to US cities as well as a massive proportion of the province's population), and generally pretty eco-friendly policies and support of science even within an oil state. It's also not just that there are parties within Alberta that are trying to push towards these things--it's actually policies that they already have had in effect for a long while and they are not really contentious issues.
What? Puerto Rico independence had 15% support in the 2017 referendum polls. Statehood was 52% and Commonwealth status was 17%.
Independence is not happening because Puerto Ricans don't want it.
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I'd vote for succession and heavy rework on the government. Not sure what to do about AOC...
