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I have known many adopted children. 5 in my family. Not one was a lunatic, but I am sure that some of their parents were. As for behavior I think that genetics only play a role in extreme cases. Behavior is mostly learned.
Why do you say that? Did their non-ID info say "Jimmy's parents were lunatics?"? If they were adopted in a domestic infant adoption, their bmothers are no more or less likely to be lunatics than their amothers.
In regards to behaviour, I believe we inherit our personality traits, which can be expressed both positively and negatively, and that our upbringing and environment do play a role in whether the traits will be expressed positively or negatively.
In regards to whether I am more like afamily or bfamily, there is a certain intrinsic quality I share with my bfamily that I don't with my afamily, something that is hard to explain and that did surprise me. It is not me trying to find similarities, in fact, I very much tried to explain it away. That is my own situation and others have had different experiences.
No offence, No Kudzu, but you did make me giggle that you thought THAT particular part of Oleg's *delightful* post was the biggest load of crap you had ever heard.
HEY.....just reminding people where they are...and who they are...In my personal alternative..way of thinking I must admit..that I do admire those who adopt..those who care - and those who love their child dearly...I guess I never got over my wife getting ripped off by her aunts for a huge inheritance..that will go to "David" the adopted child...My wife's grandfather who owned shares in a lot of gas wells...WOULD ROLL OVER IN HIS GRAVE...if he knew that the family wealth - meant to be inherited by his blood heirs..by passed them and will reside in the hands of someone who is not a relative...
Now that - the spite is out of the way...Yes..now that I am mature...I learned one thing..You must love the child with all your heart whether it is yours or not- Looking back in the past _ I remember to my dismay that my wife had an abortion..that I attempted to block.....It seems she had an affair and the child that was to be born would have had black hair instead of the blonde that all my other kids had- thus ruining the wife's credibility.....I would have accepted this child as my own..instead she got rid of the baby.....I guess that would have been a form of adoption?
As for my "load of crap" - there is a lot more where that came from..better make another coffee..so is it raining where you are?
HEY.....just reminding people where they are...and who they are...In my personal alternative..way of thinking I must admit..that I do admire those who adopt..those who care - and those who love their child dearly...I guess I never got over my wife getting ripped off by her aunts for a huge inheritance..that will go to "David" the adopted child...My wife's grandfather who owned shares in a lot of gas wells...WOULD ROLL OVER IN HIS GRAVE...if he knew that the family wealth - meant to be inherited by his blood heirs..by passed them and will reside in the hands of someone who is not a relative...
Now that - the spite is out of the way...Yes..now that I am mature...I learned one thing..You must love the child with all your heart whether it is yours or not- Looking back in the past _ I remember to my dismay that my wife had an abortion..that I attempted to block.....It seems she had an affair and the child that was to be born would have had black hair instead of the blonde that all my other kids had- thus ruining the wife's credibility.....I would have accepted this child as my own..instead she got rid of the baby.....I guess that would have been a form of adoption?
As for my "load of crap" - there is a lot more where that came from..better make another coffee..so is it raining where you are?
If David is the aunt's child, then he is legally the heir so she was not ripped off. They can leave their inheritance to whomever they wish anyway, so tough cheddar.
Yes..now that I am mature...Are you mature or are you just older, they are two separate things.
No it is not raining here in Orstralyia, it is the middle of the night and am off to beddy byes.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 10-23-2012 at 08:57 AM..
Reason: Deleted personal attack
Oleg - lets see if this makes any kind of sense to you...
Your statement here: "People say that adopted kids have more behavioral issues....of course they do...You really don't know what you have genetically and what they are genetically predisposed too." Is one of those kind of statements where people who think they are smart take two statements and assuming not only is that fact, but the only fact. By breaking apart the two statements combined you combined into one we could actually have a discussion...lets see.
People say that adopted kids have more behavioral issues....of course they do..."because the general order of life is mothers - mother - not give their babies away and babies don't understand why they were given away - that is one reason why a child may act out - they may feel they are bad - they may be sad - they may actually be hurting to the depths of their very soul that they lost their entire family. They also may have a hereditary mental illness (that also runs in a pretty fair percentage among the general population) that is the reason, or contributing concern. Your statement generalized something that is complex and multi-demensional.
"You really don't know what you have genetically and what they are genetically predisposed too."In many cases you don't know the genetics or genetic predisposition of the child - yet your tone suggests that only negative genetics is passed from parent to child, and that any positives shown in the child is solely a response to nurturing. Sorry to debunk that concept and how you could even hold that concept when family health history proves the opposite - makes me assume you didn't think that one through.
But where you really cross the line (and also shows your age by the way) is this statement - "the real mother may have been a lunatic and the father might be someone who is genetically predisposed to criminality". Newsflash - we as a society no longer believe that a women who became pregnant outside of marriage is automatically "feeble minded", "mentally deficient" or as you so nicely refer to her "a lunatic". Funny how the man automatically gets a pass from you on a mental health issues and instead you infer with words such as "might be" in saying - he can't help himself with those genes that predispose him to criminality. Really? The woman a lunatic - the man might have some genes that predispose him to criminality? Too funny - let me guess you are male? Again though - you only assume the negatives the genes may pass on instead of the positives - are we "borrowed" ones not likely to be smart enough? No positive genes passed on? No genius IQ's? That we were "thrown away" because we really weren't good enough to keep? You know - just trash...
P.s. - it's not the 1950's anymore...
Well said, Artful Dodger.
Last edited by susankate; 10-23-2012 at 07:46 AM..
Out of curiosity, what should be have our adopted kids call us? Mother protector? Mrs. Smith? Hey you? Yo mama?" I think telling a young adopted child that you aren't "mom" or "dad" is just cruel.
Both my kids understand they are adopted and we aren't their biological parents. We are realists and have always been very candid with them. Sure, I would love to know more about the biological parents just for medical knowledge and we are looking into doing this. Would be want a relationship with the biological parents? No thanks!! Both my kiddos were removed because of severe neglect and violence. It wasn't a happy situation at all.
May as well start life off with the truth..secrets in this respect is all about the fantasy carried by the parent...You are not the parent of an adopted child- You are the ward and protector and keeper of that child...People say that adopted kids have more behavioral issues....of course they do...You really don't know what you have genetically and what they are genetically predisposed too.
It is very kind to raise a child that is not of your body...just remember...the real mother may have been a lunatic and the father might be someone who is genetically predisposed to criminality...so don't be surprised if your adopted child falls off the path on occasion...You can not fight genetics....you can curb and train the child..but the child is who they are..and that is were tolerance comes in........"I do not love them because they are good, I love them because they are my little child"
Sorry, Oleg, I completely disagree with you. As an adoptee, my adopted parents ARE my parents.
If David is the aunt's child, then he is legally the heir so she was not ripped off. They can leave their inheritance to whomever they wish anyway, so tough cheddar.
I'm not entitled to receive anything legally from my biological relatives and I accept that. Yes..now that I am mature...Are you mature or are you just older, they are two separate things.
No it is not raining here in Orstralyia, it is the middle of the night and am off to beddy byes.
No you don't get it- my wife's father was a retired cop who was drinking himself to death..He was supposed to inherit the fortune..but his sisters took his mother aside when she was ill and had her change the will at the last minute..That my wives father would be put on a trust fund (they knew he would not make it)- and upon his death all the money would NOT go to his children but would revert back to the his sisters. BOTH who were childless and one with an adopted son "David"...
It was the grandfather who accumulated the wealth...He would NEVER have allowed this switch to take place..A lawyer said "It is immoral but it is legal"...so anyway...as my wife entered poverty in her mature age...some chump who was the product of some strangers will live in comfort with millions of dollars...It is not right- the money should go to the blood heirs not some stranger..
Wow....so you reside in a former penal colony...where it never rains...lol...It is almost ten in the morning here and I don't feel like getting out of bed...Just wondering - If I was to fart here in Canada - would there be a rumbling of the earth down under?
No I am not a real curmudgeon....I just like to provoke out of boredom..and being a painter and former pro-musician...improvisation comes easily...some people do cross words - I type..
Actually I am well preserved and do not consider myself old..and in truth...I am quite sweet...just about everyone loves me now that I have "mellowed" I use to be a holy terror...I am now a nice guy...I just don't like injustice..when I look at my poor wife..who should be living comfort and be a wealthy woman- I get pissed off at lawyers..and crooks...funny the second aunt had herself sterilized a week before her wedding..she was an odd one...The groom was not allowed to kiss her on the mouth because she hates germs and children....Is it just that creeps like this get to run off with the gold?
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 10-23-2012 at 08:59 AM..
Reason: Edited quoted text
Oleg - lets see if this makes any kind of sense to you...
Your statement here: "People say that adopted kids have more behavioral issues....of course they do...You really don't know what you have genetically and what they are genetically predisposed too." Is one of those kind of statements where people who think they are smart take two statements and assuming not only is that fact, but the only fact. By breaking apart the two statements combined you combined into one we could actually have a discussion...lets see.
People say that adopted kids have more behavioral issues....of course they do..."because the general order of life is mothers - mother - not give their babies away and babies don't understand why they were given away - that is one reason why a child may act out - they may feel they are bad - they may be sad - they may actually be hurting to the depths of their very soul that they lost their entire family. They also may have a hereditary mental illness (that also runs in a pretty fair percentage among the general population) that is the reason, or contributing concern. Your statement generalized something that is complex and multi-demensional.
"You really don't know what you have genetically and what they are genetically predisposed too."In many cases you don't know the genetics or genetic predisposition of the child - yet your tone suggests that only negative genetics is passed from parent to child, and that any positives shown in the child is solely a response to nurturing. Sorry to debunk that concept and how you could even hold that concept when family health history proves the opposite - makes me assume you didn't think that one through.
But where you really cross the line (and also shows your age by the way) is this statement - "the real mother may have been a lunatic and the father might be someone who is genetically predisposed to criminality". Newsflash - we as a society no longer believe that a women who became pregnant outside of marriage is automatically "feeble minded", "mentally deficient" or as you so nicely refer to her "a lunatic". Funny how the man automatically gets a pass from you on a mental health issues and instead you infer with words such as "might be" in saying - he can't help himself with those genes that predispose him to criminality. Really? The woman a lunatic - the man might have some genes that predispose him to criminality? Too funny - let me guess you are male? Again though - you only assume the negatives the genes may pass on instead of the positives - are we "borrowed" ones not likely to be smart enough? No positive genes passed on? No genius IQ's? That we were "thrown away" because we really weren't good enough to keep? You know - just trash...
P.s. - it's not the 1950's anymore...
Yes. And to be honest with you, I wasn't going to reply further because I found the OP's statements about adopted kids, (such as myself), to be very hurtful.
Damnit, I went through a lifetime of this b.s. where people used to think like this. I can't believe people still think like this.
Any "issues" I had were a toss up between, "not understanding WTH happened", and what they, (THEM, the bio donors), did. It wasn't because I was adopted, it was because I didn't understand why THEY, (the bio donors), did what they did. Which, I've already talked about that on this forum, I'm not talking about it again...and I think it's PERFECTLY NORMAL for me not to understand considering WHAT they did!
Let me tell you what I'm "genetically predisposed to", Oleg. I'm genetically predisposed to love. I love animals to the point that I have done whatever I can, whether I really had the time or money, to save them. I have a great compassion and empathy for people that I don't even know. I have a spirit that seeks to find the beauty in life and never give up hope no matter how negative some people in this world can be. I have a deep love of nature and respect her immensely. I have a desire to help people even if I can't really afford it. (And I've done this, NOT for some fricken medal, but because that is WHO I AM!) I have an open mind in that I realize people make mistakes and I don't typically, (not in real life), judge so harshly as others do, I try to be more understanding...if someone "appears" a certain way, I don't follow the herd, I try to find out if they ARE that way or if maybe they are just shy, or introverted or whatever. Or if they are covering for something in their own life or if they are scared or whatever it is. How horrible! Everyone be wary of the likes of me and my damaged, "God only KNOWS what she's genetically predisposed to" ways.
And yes, the bio mom is a fricken lunatic. She's a damn sociopath. He's a fricken criminal. He's been arrested more than one time for heinous crimes.
AND I'M NOTHING LIKE THEM! Imagine that! I'm pretty darn smart, everything else I wrote above and you know what, even though you said all of those things that really sting, Oleg, I still enjoy your posts, (not this one but others), and I will try to view this as you being severely misinformed and naive and not hateful. Because that's how I ROLL!
And I don't find anything wrong with me. I've done enough beating myself up as a child that I was not worthy or not wanted or something to fear, I sure as hell am not going to let someone try to tell me that now.
No you don't get it- my wife's father was a retired cop who was drinking himself to death..He was supposed to inherit the fortune..but his sisters took his mother aside when she was ill and had her change the will at the last minute..That my wives father would be put on a trust fund (they knew he would not make it)- and upon his death all the money would NOT go to his children but would revert back to the his sisters. BOTH who were childless and one with an adopted son "David"...
It was the grandfather who accumulated the wealth...He would NEVER have allowed this switch to take place..A lawyer said "It is immoral but it is legal"...so anyway...as my wife entered poverty in her mature age...some chump who was the product of some strangers will live in comfort with millions of dollars...It is not right- the money should go to the blood heirs not some stranger..
Wow....so you reside in a former penal colony...where it never rains...lol...It is almost ten in the morning here and I don't feel like getting out of bed...Just wondering - If I was to fart here in Canada - would there be a rumbling of the earth down under?
No I am not a real curmudgeon....I just like to provoke out of boredom..and being a painter and former pro-musician...improvisation comes easily...some people do cross words - I type..
Actually I am well preserved and do not consider myself old..and in truth...I am quite sweet...just about everyone loves me now that I have "mellowed" I use to be a holy terror...I am now a nice guy...I just don't like injustice..when I look at my poor wife..who should be living comfort and be a wealthy woman- I get pissed off at lawyers..and crooks...funny the second aunt had herself sterilized a week before her wedding..she was an odd one...The groom was not allowed to kiss her on the mouth because she hates germs and children....Is it just that creeps like this get to run off with the gold?
If they adopted the son, then he is their legal heir. It sounds like you should be more upset at the aunts for taking your wife's grandmother aside - would you really have been that much happier if the aunt had had a biological son inheriting the money? Don't take it out on David but on your aunts.
Btw I am glad that I am legally entitled to inherit off my aparents and don't find it immoral at all.
No I am not a real curmudgeon....I just like to provoke out of boredom.. I agree that curmudgeon probably isn't the right word - perhaps drongo might be more appropriate - bet you don't know the origin of that word
so you reside in a former penal colony: Yep, and I am of convict heritage so there you are - there are criminal tendencies deep in my background - my convict forebear stole a sheep to feed his family - the crime of the century.
...Just wondering - If I was to fart here in Canada - would there be a rumbling of the earth down under? If I smell an almighty stench, I'll know whom to blame.
Last edited by susankate; 10-23-2012 at 08:27 AM..
OB, please define "genetic estrangement". I strongly disagree with your beliefs about adoption, but I'd like to have your definition of this term clarified.
It appears that you feel that "blood", i.e. biological kinship, outweighs love, which certainly can include both biological kinship and adoptive kinship and all other sorts of "kinships" - much-loved fictional adoptee Anne Shirley's term "kindred spirits" comes to mind. Do you really feel that "blood" outweighs love? Or that love of one's biological kin is somehow stronger, better, more significant than one's love of other dear ones who are not biologically related?
Anne was Canadian, too...and a suspicious neighbor initially said of her, "That's the kind that poisons the well!"
Never happened. Instead, Anne enriched and sweetened the lives of her adoptive family and all who knew her...as do the vast majority of those who were adopted.
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