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Honestly, the main reason it bothers me is because, like I said, it reduces my daughter's worth, IMO. She is instantly viewed as "less than" a biological child by the person saying it.
Yes, & as many of us have pointed out -- whatever comments you hear, your daughter is likely to hear eventually, too. She'll get the message that many people view her as "less than" biological children. She'll get that people automatically think you are a saint for adopting her, like she is some charity case.
I don't envy adoptive parents who have to figure out how to talk to their children about these messages. My parents did what most parents do & just corrected the person in the moment with, "No, WE'RE the lucky ones."
I don't think they realized I would internalize those messages in spite of their corrections. I didn't realize it, either.
Yes, & as many of us have pointed out -- whatever comments you hear, your daughter is likely to hear eventually, too. She'll get the message that many people view her as "less than" biological children. She'll get that people automatically think you are a saint for adopting her, like she is some charity case.
I don't envy adoptive parents who have to figure out how to talk to their children about these messages. My parents did what most parents do & just corrected the person in the moment with, "No, WE'RE the lucky ones."
I don't think they realized I would internalize those messages in spite of their corrections. I didn't realize it, either.
I suppose that's where I benefit from the internet and adoptees like yourself being so open and willing to share about your experiences.
Thank you for helping me be a better mom. Truly. You and the other adoptee voices here, on other forums, on blogs. I really appreciate it.
BTW I am GRATEFUL and THANKFUL for all of my children. By adoption and by birth.
That is nice to hear
Btw in regards to your older post quoted below, that is perfectly normal child/parent gratitude. I too am grateful for things that my parents have done, just like non-adopted people.
I am quite sure though that you don't expect your daughter to be more grateful about being in your family than your son, just because she arrived in your family via adoption? In fact, you have made it clear just below that you don't. That's all we are trying to point out, i.e. the general public do often expect that an adopted person should be more grateful for being in their families than their non-adopted peers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
I think that it is normal for children, adopted or not to have gratitude towards their parents for a "job well done".
You won't hear or feel it at five or six. And NO CHILD has gratitude for "being born". So, my daughter has no gratitude towards the people who conceived her.
I think that is normal.
However, my kids were raised to have manners. Not only in the formality of saying "please" , "thank you" and not to interrupt; but to be genuinely and sincerely considerate individuals.
The world needs more of those.
Are they ready to raise children? At just turned 17 and 19, respectively; the answer would be an unequivocal "hell no!".
During a conversation with a good friend last evening, I mentioned that if I were to adopt an infant, that I would not leave said child with either child, I would not leave either of them alone with them for longer than two hours.
They are still kids themselves. I don't expect them to be mini-adults.
Both of my children have a distinct disinterest in infants, which I think is normal for their age group. My daughter babysits but in her own words "I don't do babies".
(I am SO glad of that)
Any way my children, as they make their way through their teen years, they have both begun to express gratitude towards both of us, in a variety of ways. Most recently, when my son began receiving letters of acceptance from colleges that admittedly he would not have known existed, one day he received a letter of acceptance to Antioch College in Yellow Springs Ohio. It was his first choice. (for a variety of reasons, he did not end up attending Antioch) However, my son was full of joy, thrilled with his achievement, over flowing with happiness and yes gratitude! My son turned to me and said "Mom, I'm do happy you're my mother - I couldn't have done this with out you!"
And he was right. He couldn't have. Most of the colleges that he applied to he'd never even heard of. I know his personality, likes and dislikes. I'm a mom. That's what I do.
Similarly, my daughter and I were shopping for prom gowns last year. She's been asked to the junior prom. She was trying on gown after gown that were not doing her justice and resisting the style that I'd been promoting. Finally she gave in, and tried on another gown style.
She looked smashingly good! And at that point my daughter through her arms around me and said "Mom you are amazing! I'm so glad you're my mom!"
Has my daughter who was adopted at four months ever said "thank you for adopting me". NO. Why would she? She knows that we had her brother and adopted her out of selfish reasons! WE WANTED CHILDREN. Infants at the time.
However, the dynamics can be different when older kids are adopted, especially teens and pre-teens who know that most prospective parents prefer younger children. Many of them are grateful that they were adopted.
I see nothing wrong with that. Consider the alternative.
I'm still puzzling out "the APs are judged harshly by society" part. I've never seen that. But then, I don't view a home study as judging but rather ensuring a child's well-being. Maybe the judging is solely in reference to the adoption process. My experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable when I tell people we adopted
Home studies don't really play into the topic of being judged that much. It's more of a tedious, invasive process. I don't recall reading the word "harshly." APs and PAPs are judged differently than biological families. This has been stated and I can relate; we aren't cut any slack as some assume. Following is a summary of how differently we are judged:
We are not all wealthy, self-absorbed, selfish, needy human beings who can't get over infertility, or who don't want to ruin our precious bodies with a pregnancy. We don't hate birth mothers or birth fathers and we aren't insensitive to adoptees, our soon to be adopted children, or our adopted children. We have no sense of entitlement and we are not trying to steal babies from poor women or teenaged-pregnant girls.
I was able to come up with the above just by what has been stated on forums, blogs, and other internet sites. Yes, I visit all sorts of sites about adoption and have read some vile things said of APs and PAPs. It's really sad. There are many more unfavorable adjectives and perceptions but I'll just state those for now.
One reason you may feel puzzled by this is that you did not approach or arrive at adoption the way many APs and PAPs have. Your introduction to adoption was not due to the desire to start or build your family. It seems it was more altruistic. Nothing wrong with this, but it definitely gives you a different perspective than others. Your initial experience therefore, is probably what has shaped your view of your adoption journey, your adopted daughter, and the process in general.
It may be that adoption for you is akin to a new career, despite learning all about it and arming yourself with the best information from all parties in the industry, your comfort level may still be years away from transitioning your feelings about it from a "cause" to being an integral part of your family. I say this because from your posts there remains a strong need to have continued validation from your daughter's birth parents, even a year after her placement with you. There still seems to be a feeling of uneasiness with the whole adoption. That's just what I've interpreted and may be why your "experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable."
Now, because we've been planning for adoption for a few years, I get a completely different response from people. When we were shopping for cribs, strollers, car seats, clothes, most of the baby items parent shop for (and what we were required to buy for our home study); we told people "we are in the process of adopting." They all responded with positive comments and offered to help in any way. We've even been given baby stuff. Recently I was offered a medical grade breast pump, which I will be happy to receive. We also started inadvertently meeting other APs, PAPs and biological families who were more than happy to share in our joy and stress. This isn't where the difference in judgment comes from.
The difference comes from those who have mixed or negative feelings about adoption or have strong opinions about what constitutes a "family." This is what is prevalent in our society. It's the same prejudiced notion that gay couples shouldn't adopt or single-persons shouldn't adopt. It is the unspoken belief that all families are biological. It's a hard concept to change when it's been ingrained in society for hundreds of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
Of course we, the adoptive parents are the grateful one or should be. Yes, children who are adopted and have wonderful life, should be thankful, but that is different than grateful. I know our two adopted kids thank God everyday (well that might be an exaggeration) for their lives and for being a part of our family, but I doubt they would ever think in terms of "being grateful". As I have mentioned before, our son is still dealing with why he was given up, but after he visited us last month, I think he has a little better understanding. Our daughter is a happy, well adjusted middle aged woman and thanks us for giving her a great life. They are both thankful they were lucky enough to be put in adopted homes where everything seemed to work for them. We are grateful that the County bureau of Adoptions trusted us with these 2 little babies.
I was able to come up with the above just by what has been stated on forums, blogs, and other internet sites. Yes, I visit all sorts of sites about adoption and have read some vile things said of APs and PAPs. It's really sad. There are many more unfavorable adjectives and perceptions but I'll just state those for now.
Do you ever read the unfavorable adjectives and pereceptions about bparents or adoptees, ... even from this forum? Probably not, huh?
Quote:
It may be that adoption for you is akin to a new career, despite learning all about it and arming yourself with the best information from all parties in the industry, your comfort level may still be years away from transitioning your feelings about it from a "cause" to being an integral part of your family. I say this because from your posts there remains a strong need to have continued validation from your daughter's birth parents, even a year after her placement with you. There still seems to be a feeling of uneasiness with the whole adoption. That's just what I've interpreted and may be why your "experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable."
Oddly, I doubt many view Tiff as you do. Desiring to to be the best mother she can be for her daughter's best interests is not a "cause". I don't see any of the above in Tiff's posts, and you'll have to excuse me if I am misreading, but the uneasiness and uncomfortableness you may be seeing is your own when reading Tiff's posts.
Last edited by Jaded; 04-30-2013 at 08:59 PM..
Reason: Personal attacks
I don't recall reading the word "harshly." APs and PAPs are judged differently than biological families.
You said this on the first page of the thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded
There will always be those judging APs and PAPs a lot more harshly than our bio counterparts.
No one is saying there aren't some people who judge APs harshly, because there are. But adoptees & their bio-families are judged more harshly than APs on average & in many more ways. It's hard to believe anyone is truly unaware of this.
Quote:
There still seems to be a feeling of uneasiness with the whole adoption. That's just what I've interpreted and may be why your "experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable."
Let's not take what Tiff has actually said out of context or else we might get things twisted.
She never said her experience with adoption has been uncomfortable. She said what made her uncomfortable were positive compliments that have demeaning implications for her daughter (which the speaker is not aware of).
How you interpreted any of her posts to mean she feels uneasy with the adoption is perplexing. I think it's obvious that Tiff views her daughter as an integral part of her family.
IMO she is a great example of what makes an excellent adoptive parent: Open-minded, empathetic, & most of all eager to learn about the adoptee-experience so she is well-prepared to meet any needs her daughter may have.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 05-01-2013 at 08:11 AM..
Home studies don't really play into the topic of being judged that much. It's more of a tedious, invasive process. I don't recall reading the word "harshly." APs and PAPs are judged differently than biological families. This has been stated and I can relate; we aren't cut any slack as some assume. Following is a summary of how differently we are judged:
We are not all wealthy, self-absorbed, selfish, needy human beings who can't get over infertility, or who don't want to ruin our precious bodies with a pregnancy. We don't hate birth mothers or birth fathers and we aren't insensitive to adoptees, our soon to be adopted children, or our adopted children. We have no sense of entitlement and we are not trying to steal babies from poor women or teenaged-pregnant girls.
I was able to come up with the above just by what has been stated on forums, blogs, and other internet sites. Yes, I visit all sorts of sites about adoption and have read some vile things said of APs and PAPs. It's really sad. There are many more unfavorable adjectives and perceptions but I'll just state those for now.
One reason you may feel puzzled by this is that you did not approach or arrive at adoption the way many APs and PAPs have. Your introduction to adoption was not due to the desire to start or build your family. It seems it was more altruistic. Nothing wrong with this, but it definitely gives you a different perspective than others. Your initial experience therefore, is probably what has shaped your view of your adoption journey, your adopted daughter, and the process in general.
It may be that adoption for you is akin to a new career, despite learning all about it and arming yourself with the best information from all parties in the industry, your comfort level may still be years away from transitioning your feelings about it from a "cause" to being an integral part of your family. I say this because from your posts there remains a strong need to have continued validation from your daughter's birth parents, even a year after her placement with you. There still seems to be a feeling of uneasiness with the whole adoption. That's just what I've interpreted and may be why your "experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable."
Now, because we've been planning for adoption for a few years, I get a completely different response from people. When we were shopping for cribs, strollers, car seats, clothes, most of the baby items parent shop for (and what we were required to buy for our home study); we told people "we are in the process of adopting." They all responded with positive comments and offered to help in any way. We've even been given baby stuff. Recently I was offered a medical grade breast pump, which I will be happy to receive. We also started inadvertently meeting other APs, PAPs and biological families who were more than happy to share in our joy and stress. This isn't where the difference in judgment comes from.
The difference comes from those who have mixed or negative feelings about adoption or have strong opinions about what constitutes a "family." This is what is prevalent in our society. It's the same prejudiced notion that gay couples shouldn't adopt or single-persons shouldn't adopt. It is the unspoken belief that all families are biological. It's a hard concept to change when it's been ingrained in society for hundreds of years.
^^This.
Jaded,
You quoted Tiffjoy as saying this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffjoy I'm still puzzling out "the APs are judged harshly by society" part. I've never seen that. But then, I don't view a home study as judging but rather ensuring a child's well-being. Maybe the judging is solely in reference to the adoption process. My experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable when I tell people we adopted
When in reality Tiffjoy said this:
Quote:
I'm still puzzling out "the APs are judged harshly by society" part. I've never seen that. But then, I don't view a home study as judging but rather ensuring a child's well-being. Maybe the judging is solely in reference to the adoption process. My experience has been overwhelmingly uncomfortable when I tell people we adopted- I am not ok with people's attitudes of me immediately being like, "Oh, you are such an amazing person." It's awkward because it's really upsetting but often difficult to convey to the person why it's upsetting. They just don't get it. I find it to be really demeaning to my daughter, and I get really protective immediately of her intrinsic worth as a person. But the person saying it thinks they are being nice. They truly view adoption as something wonderful people do, whereas having bio children is for everyone. I have also gotten the "infertility is so hard" thing but when I say we didn't experience infertility but chose adoption, I get really puzzled reactions. Again, the view is why adopt a child if you can have "your own?" It is so devaluing.
Honestly, the main reason it bothers me is because, like I said, it reduces my daughter's worth, IMO. She is instantly viewed as "less than" a biological child by the person saying it.
You can't take words out of context of the full paragraph, and especially not mid sentence.
No one is saying there aren't some people who judge APs harshly, because there are. But adoptees & their bio-families are judged more harshly than APs on average & in many more ways. It's hard to believe anyone is truly unaware of this.
What I said was that there will always be those who judge...not that society as a whole does this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artful Dodger
Jaded,
You can't take words out of context of the full paragraph, and especially not mid sentence.
In my comment above, I am speaking of ALL of her posts, throughout this sub-forum.
Last edited by Jaded; 05-01-2013 at 11:36 PM..
Reason: misspelling
So back to the actual topic... a fairly long list has been compiled giving examples of many of the negative societal messages regarding adoptees (ones that lead people to believe we should be grateful we were adopted). I am still curious to hear from those who requested the examples because they were not aware of any.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 05-02-2013 at 07:59 AM..
So back to the actual topic... a fairly long list has been compiled giving examples of many of the negative societal messages regarding adoptees (ones that lead people to believe we should be grateful we were adopted). I am still curious to hear from those who requested the examples because they were not aware of any.
Getting ready for a move now so not as much time to post on these adoption forums.
Since I asked for examples, thanks for posting. Seems like quite a list of negative things adoptees must deal with on a daily basis. I guess for now, I can only shelter my children from life's negative messages about adoption and from your list, there are plenty. Aside from a few well meaning but misguided comments I got from folks after we adopted, they haven't been bombarded with this kind of stuff an for that I'm happy.
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