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Old 02-18-2011, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Carver County, MN
1,395 posts, read 2,660,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
Incidentally, Barrow was steadily increasing in population up through about 2000, and then took a real nose dive. Some claim that is changing right now and that it is going back up, but I haven't seen any figures to support that yet. It hit a peak of almost 6000 people in maybe 2001, and was less than 4000 last year.

Kinda makes this "Lock, Stock, and Barrow" title sound about 10 to 30 years out of date. It ain't like the early 80's anymore...
Why has the population of Barrow declined so much in the last decade?
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 7,653,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota Spring View Post
Why has the population of Barrow declined so much in the last decade?
Pure speculation on my part, as I've never seen anything with hard numbers, but it is almost certainly directly related to the decline of oil money.

Certainly even towards the end of the 1990's the North Slope Borough was in a building mode. They started life with no infrastructure at all, and everything was directed at putting it into place. By the end of the 1990's the peak had been reached, and 1) most of what was needed had been built, 2) the bonds sold to finance it all were paid or nearly paid off, 3) the money flow from property taxes on oil infrastructure was declining. The effect was that for the first time the NSB was looking at budget reductions rather than expansion.

So the job market began to contract, particularly at the well paid end. And inflation, due mostly to higher shipping costs resulting from higher fuel prices began to eat at the value of mid-level jobs in Barrow.

Interestingly the exodus has been primarily both Native or Caucasian Americans, and has mostly been the middle and upper middle class. Foreign and other American minorities have stayed, or even increased in numbers. The really well to do aren't leaving either. The lower class people here are virtually all Inupiat (they are the only ones who can find a support system to keep them alive if they are not productive), and they of course stay because they have family ties here.

Overall it hasn't changed Barrow much, but the lack of upper middle class "get rich" folks is not really a loss.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Manhattan Island
1,981 posts, read 3,847,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueflames50 View Post
no forests in Barrow! not sure how your degree translate to work in Barrow...tundra studies maybe???
Hahaha, it doesn't. No need for forest resources specialists in Barrow. I wouldn't want to live on the North Slope anyway, because the conditions there are just too alien for me. I wouldn't want to be surrounded by tundra either, because for one, it's strange looking, and for another, you can't go out walking across the tundra unless it's frozen over due to the thousands of holes filled with water. It's a really really strange type of terrain that I have never seen or dealt with in my life, and I just don't understand it. I don't understand how it got to be that way, for one thing, and I just plain ole don't understand it at all, to be frank. It certainly is very fascinating, but terrain that is impossible to traverse unless it's frozen is just not what I'm looking for.

North Slope towns are strange to me as well. Look at the photo of Kotzebue in the "Photos of Alaskan Towns" thread. It is strange to me that the town is built on a very thin strip of brown land that looks like it is essentially floating in the ocean. I don't understand how you could build a foundation for a house on land like that, or how you could know whether or not your house was going to be underwater when you wake up. It's all just very alien to me.

Anyone (hint hint Floyd) wanna chime in on any of this? Just why that land is how it is and how people are able to build towns like Kotzebue boggles my mind. I guess really what this post is saying is... I don't know squat about the North Slope, and I would love to know more about it. Even if it has nothing to do with what I study.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 7,653,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipOfFools42 View Post
Hahaha, it doesn't. No need for forest resources specialists in Barrow. I wouldn't want to live on the North Slope anyway, because the conditions there are just too alien for me.
But from the sound of everything you say, you would love living here for at least a short stint (5 or 10 years)! Simply for the adventure of learning about all of these things that appear to be different from where you grew up and are familiar with.

Quote:
I wouldn't want to be surrounded by tundra either, because for one, it's strange looking, and for another, you can't go out walking across the tundra unless it's frozen over due to the thousands of holes filled with water. It's a really really strange type of terrain that I have never seen or dealt with in my life, and I just don't understand it. I don't understand how it got to be that way, for one thing, and I just plain ole don't understand it at all, to be frank. It certainly is very fascinating, but terrain that is impossible to traverse unless it's frozen is just not what I'm looking for.
It isn't tundra that is strange, it's your misconception of what it is that is off base! You are close in a couple places, but not close enough.

Consider that anywhere you see a "hole filled with water", that necessarily means there is no way for the water to soak into the ground, or it wouldn't be there. In most areas of tundra that means there necessarily is permafrost under the water. On the North Slope there of course is something line 1400 feet of permafrost virtually everywhere, and therefore there are lakes and ponds virtually everywhere too.

And the tundra itself is indeed spongy, but it is only a few inches thick. That means that while it may not be like walking on a sidewalk, it is possible to walk great distances on the tundra, summer or winter. In fact the farther north one goes the easier it is, as the thickness of the layer that can melt in the summer is less. So tundra around Barrow is much easier to walk on than tundra farther south.

Quote:
North Slope towns are strange to me as well. Look at the photo of Kotzebue in the "Photos of Alaskan Towns" thread. It is strange to me that the town is built on a very thin strip of brown land that looks like it is essentially floating in the ocean. I don't understand how you could build a foundation for a house on land like that, or how you could know whether or not your house was going to be underwater when you wake up. It's all just very alien to me.
I'm not sure how you can miss what the mode of construction is, as many pictures show it rather clearly, and there are many good descriptions available on the Internet. But still, a short time living here would provide a real adventure as you explore in depth the various methods used for Arctic construction. It would keep you entertained for a long long time.

The same would be true for studying what the tundra is and how it develops, because that is extremely complex and would a lifetime adventure to learn.

Quote:
Anyone (hint hint Floyd) wanna chime in on any of this? Just why that land is how it is and how people are able to build towns like Kotzebue boggles my mind. I guess really what this post is saying is... I don't know squat about the North Slope, and I would love to know more about it. Even if it has nothing to do with what I study.
Now, let me tell you a short story that might boggle your mind. My late mother-in-law was born in Kipnuk Alaska, on the western coast of Alaska next to the Bering Sea. That is much like Barrow, in that there is nothing but tundra for 200 miles. An interesting comparison to my late mother who was born near Port Orchard Washington, in the middle of perhaps one of the most majestic forests that had ever existed in the Lower-48. On top of that my mother was a farm girl with an interest in botany and knew every plant by name and could rattle off food, medical, and other uses; which of course was the same as my wife's mother who grew up as a hunter gatherer in a subsistence culture similar in many ways to a farm girl's life.

So once upon a time about 40 years ago my wife and I took our mothers to the Olympic peninsula, to look at the rain forest. My mother of course spoke English, and my mother-in-law spoke Yup'ik Eskimo. My wife happens to be fluent in both, and has taught translation, so she of course served as their translator. Those to old women did in fact compare notes on every plant there was! You see, except for the evergreen trees, every single plant on the forest floor of the Olympic peninsula also grows on the tundra of western Alaska! And it turned out that the uses for those plants as understood by farm girls and Eskimos were identical too.

I'll tell you... I was astounded.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
3,721 posts, read 7,826,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
Now, let me tell you a short story that might boggle your mind. My late mother-in-law was born in Kipnuk Alaska, on the western coast of Alaska next to the Bering Sea. That is much like Barrow, in that there is nothing but tundra for 200 miles. An interesting comparison to my late mother who was born near Port Orchard Washington, in the middle of perhaps one of the most majestic forests that had ever existed in the Lower-48. On top of that my mother was a farm girl with an interest in botany and knew every plant by name and could rattle off food, medical, and other uses; which of course was the same as my wife's mother who grew up as a hunter gatherer in a subsistence culture similar in many ways to a farm girl's life.

So once upon a time about 40 years ago my wife and I took our mothers to the Olympic peninsula, to look at the rain forest. My mother of course spoke English, and my mother-in-law spoke Yup'ik Eskimo. My wife happens to be fluent in both, and has taught translation, so she of course served as their translator. Those to old women did in fact compare notes on every plant there was! You see, except for the evergreen trees, every single plant on the forest floor of the Olympic peninsula also grows on the tundra of western Alaska! And it turned out that the uses for those plants as understood by farm girls and Eskimos were identical too.

I'll tell you... I was astounded.
This is a fascinating story, Floyd! I have been to the Hoh Rain Forest, and wouldn't have expected everything there (sans the evergreen) to grown in the tundra of Alaska.

Actually, I often think to myself that I don't spend enough time on the Olympic Peninsula (except for Ocean City a time or two per summer). I've only visited the rain forest once, Sol Duc Hot Springs once, Dungeness Spit once, Lake Crescent once..... I have spent almost all my time camping, hiking, etc. in the Cascades and in Eastern Washington! (And with that exception of Ocean City and Ocean Shores, I've even spent more time in the San Juan Islands than on the Olympic Peninsula, too). Although I'm going to be going back to Lake Chelan for camping this summer, perhaps I'll make it a point to show the Peninsula a little more love this summer, too!
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 7,653,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjg5 View Post
This is a fascinating story, Floyd! I have been to the Hoh Rain Forest, and wouldn't have expected everything there (sans the evergreen) to grown in the tundra of Alaska.
Let me add another short one that is part of that story.

You've no doubt seen birch trees. I lived near Fairbanks in the Interior for a couple of decades, and like most of Alaska's interior there are two kinds of birch trees that grow there. They get usually only several inches in diameter, though they must grow commonly to 50 or 60 feet high.

I haven't seen any birch trees on the tundra here on the North Slope, but I'd be surprised if there are none (just none near Barrow). That is because I have seen birch trees on the tundra close to the Bering Sea coast. They grow to a length of maybe as much as twenty feet or so, but often are much shorter. They are only perhaps an inch in diameter, sometimes a little more! And while it is exactly the same birch tree, it grows like a vine horizontally along the surface of the tundra, entwined with all the other plants.

The tundra is made up of hundreds of different plants. The variety changes with elevation above water, so in a twenty foot horizontal distance where the elevation changes maybe 18 inches, the vegetation goes through multiple types of plants, each layer depending on how much standing water it needs or not.

It may not be a forest, but it's a paradise for a botanist.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Barrow Alaska
206 posts, read 514,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by german_in_alaska View Post
I got a german nursing degree, but it doesn't count in the states, what sucks bad. The only thing my degree is worth here is a associate in social work. I would love to go back to work, even would take a low wage job, but than on the other site there is the cost of day care, we will see, maybe i will find something that pays more than just money for day care.
This is an interesting statement, mainly because one of the more proficient daycare providers for the teachers is leaving Barrow. I will not reveal her name but i know she took care of three different teachers children.

Considering you have a nursing degree from Germany (my wife would love you she has Masters in German Language studies) and two kids yourself i don't see why you could not scoop up those teachers kids for daycare and make yourself some very good money. This would allow you to also watch your own children at the same time.

As for food, eating out is a nice thing to do in Barrow from time to time, but in all seriousness the prices for a meal from one of the restaurants is on the very high side. While Floyd is very deserving of his "discounts" and "perks" he gets from his close friends at the local Restaurants, most of us do not get these.

The best food is what you make, my wife and I purchase 500.00 worth of meat from http://http://mikesqualitymeats.com/ about every 2 months (4 person household) yes thats alot up front but it really lasts, and i think the 2 months has leveled out to around 3. I get as many dry goods as i can from Amazon.com (25.00+ and you get free shipping), and then i resort to Walmart.com, Samsclub, and CostCo. Your mileage may vary with all of those because of the whole P.O.Box issues we have with those retailers. You do not have a physical address in Barrow its just a P.O.Box, although there is a local family of Tongans who do deliver FedEx and UPS, I know them personally and they are very nice and respectful.

Everything else you cant get shipped can be found between the AC and the ACTP (Arctic Coast Trading Post) the former is a big corporate catch all store(where i work at), and the second is a locally owned grocery store, the owner for most parts is a very nice guy, but guarded, for good reason. ACTP has later hours than the AC so when you need a late night Ice cream fix you go there.

There is also the AC Quick Stop, this tries to be like a 7-Eleven, but the hours are not like convenience store hours, and there prices are even higher then the AC which is its parent store.

Your 10 year old might find it hard to integrate with the rest of the children at first, but give it time and try to get him/her involved with all the various school activities. You cannot rely on neighborhood environments for interactivity with your kids, so a more structured and sheltered group of activities helps with the whole "friends" issue, especially during the winter months.

Barrow is a very, very different type of town to live in, weather aside, there are a lot of other hurdles one must overcome to actually feel like you can call this place home. I am going on 8 months now, While i do not foresee me or my family relocating anytime soon, i have found my niche here. I never would have thought i would be happy as a overnight freight supervisor at a grocery store. For some reason though, i do not dread going to work, i love all the different people i get to meet here, and all the cultures i have gotten exposed to.

So take what everyone has said here with a huge grain of salt. There are a lot of Barrow haters and just as many Lovers, but in the end its your families life that matters, if Barrow is for you and your's, you will find your place here and flourish.

Barrow citizens are guarded, mainly because most who come here leave, they leave for x-mas break, leave for spring break, leave for summer break, or they just plain leave. Its hard to make strong ties only to have them severed over and over.

Sorry for the book, but i try and cover as much as i can, and i know i left out tons... Price of Taxi. Transportation, Whaling, Hunting,Internet, i can go on for a long time, but if you have other questions just ask, and eventually, even from the haters, you will get your answers.

Best Wises and Good Luck in your move.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Here, or there
214 posts, read 705,559 times
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Best of Luck!
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Manhattan Island
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Great post, Floyd, and great story to boot! I think that I would love some aspects of living in Barrow, but I also think that the complete and total lack of trees might bother me. Notice I said might, because it very well might not. It's kinda like the lack of four seasons; I always thought it would be a huge thing that would be very bothersome, but my friend who moved from here to California said that he enjoys the consistent weather. Of course, Alaska, even the North Slope, has much more variation than where he lives, but I still wonder about that. Sure, there are two seasons, but I've lived my entire life with four, so it would be a weird change.

Interesting also about how the tundra is so thin; there is a lot about it that I still don't understand, but you're probably right that I would enjoy getting to explore that world in person. Walking around on the tundra would be very very surreal, walking on a sponge around all those pools of water in complete and utter wilderness... well, it does sound so very fascinating. There's so much on my list of things I want to do in my lifetime, I'm going to need several lifetimes to get it all done.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Barrow Alaska
206 posts, read 514,158 times
Reputation: 270
Its amazing how quickly threads on this board get de-railed so easily.
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