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Also, longevity on City-Data doesn't make one "well respected." The content of their posts and their reputation earns one respect, and Floyd is lacking in both areas.
I agree that while Floyd can be an old pita sometimes (as we all can be), if you want to talk rep...well, proportionately he leaves you in the dust, Glitch. And I think that his photography adds a lot to this forum. I doubt that I'll ever go to Barrow but it's nice to see the pictures.
Seems like you have a lot of hate in you for anyone and anything that doesn't fall in line with your extreme right wing "beliefs".
You were stammering again, making up fabrications. You claimed to have thanked me for what you said, not for anything I said. Hilarious.
Just for your enlightenment, I've been advocating increased oil drilling, particularly in the NPR-A (literally my backyard) for years; and I have never said what you claimed I did, about oil destroying Alaska. Why do you fabricate so many lies? Why are you so afraid of real issues?
On the other hand, I will say that the influence of "Big Oil" has gone a long ways to destroy Alaska. Ted Stevens appears to be about to bite the dust because of it, and that is going to hurt us all. We have half a dozen or so people in jail, with several more obviously headed that way soon, who either were bribed or were bribing.
Odd how every last one of them is a Republican, eh?
This was about Polar Bears that aren't endangered, but as far as politics goes, the ones caught with the bribes were from both sides of the isles...
Bill Allen wasn't picky on whom he could bribe or drag down with him.
You have a great flair for missing the obious...
As far as Stevens, I will wait to pass judgment after his trial. I don't believe in lynchings.... If he did the crime, then he should do the time...
I agree that while Floyd can be an old pita sometimes (as we all can be), if you want to talk rep...well, proportionately he leaves you in the dust, Glitch. And I think that his photography adds a lot to this forum. I doubt that I'll ever go to Barrow but it's nice to see the pictures.
Seems like you have a lot of hate in you for anyone and anything that doesn't fall in line with your extreme right wing "beliefs".
HEEELLLOOO….What did I say in my very first post in this thread (as I shamelessly pat myself on the back).
Starlite see’s the world in black and white; no room for the gray area inherent in such a complex discussion. You’re either with him, or you’re an idiot (hmmm, where have I heard that line of thinking before).
I’m not making a judgment either way, that’s just how some people are. But he will never accept that it’s possible to adopt a wide variety of opinions on this issue. Yes, it’s possible to believe that the climate is changing, undoubtedly due primarily to natural cycles, but that humans are probably also having some influence as well. That evidence clearly shows that annual sea ice coverage in the arctic is currently declining, but that’s also likely due primarily to natural cycles, but since the Polar Bears live on the ice they are probably SOL for now as well, though the trend could change at any time so listing the Polar Bear as endangered is a meaningless PR move. That you can believe the Caribou are getting along fine on the Slope, but they have likely been affected by all of the activity up there to some extent, but that’s just the way it is - life adapts. That you can be for drilling in ANWR, but still concerned for the Caribou population, because you really like eating Reindeer sausage…
Starlite, there are plenty of people who voted in this poll who haven't really been engaging in the conversation as it would rather be like getting between a couple of rutting bull moose. I voted in the poll. So have others. I doubt that anyone has made up multiple nicks; and fyi they have a system here which really doesn't allow for multiple nicks. And what's with trying to infer that Floyd doesn't really live in Barrow? If you're trying to give your argument more credibility with this kind of thing it ain't working too well.
I told Floyd that I appoligized for not believing he lived in Barrow, I did say I can't fathom how someone can live there and be totally ignorant of what is going on in the North Slope area with the animals.
That would be like living in New York City and not knowing about Central Park.
You speak in terms of absolutes which no one, no matter how knowledgeable in any field, particularly in the area of climate science or biodiversity, could ever hope to claim. You state you have seen allot of things up on the slope (which I don’t dispute), and so have I. However I would never claim to have seen it all or that my casual sightings of Caribou and Polar Bears are all inclusive or somehow extensive enough to draw large scale conclusions.
There are people who study these things full time, and I defer to their expertise. I’ve talked to many biologists working for several of the agencies represented up on the slope, and they are for the most part honest, inteligent people out to collect data and draw objective conclusions, not vilify the oil companies. In fact, the producers themselves probably employ just as many biologists and environmental protection specialists as do the Feds and the State.
Are you really trying to tell us that based upon YOUR observations, all of the countless people who have spent tens of thousands of man hours arriving at conclusions that differ from yours are simply liars and fools?
I had no idea you are so formidable!
The North Slope oil fields now cover some 100+- miles across the Northern Coast line. To drive from one end to the other, you will see thousands of Caribou, ten here, hundred there and single ones with calves all over. You will see a wide spectrum of wildlife that you will not find around any of the towns or villages along the North Slope. It is illegal to hunt here, the areas around the towns and villages have had everything killed within a two hour snowmachine ride or fourwheeler. That is why Floyd can't get any good photos of animals other than one or two here and there from Barrow. I can go out from where I am sitting and take a picture of anywhere from ten to twenty Caribou withing a few min's of the pad where our camp is at. That is a fact in "Black and White", no Grey in that statement.
Polar Bears are here in great numbers for what they are. They do adapt, they aren't stupid like folks like to claim, they go into the Brooks range and eat sheep if they want, (hundred + miles to the South) and do very well and have done so for Centuries, they will go where the food is when they want to. The seals are all along the coast line, even when the "Ice" is suppose to be miles away, why is that? The coast is where the fish are at, and they eat fish... no matter where the ice goes, the polar bear are going to follow the food too....
I couldn't tell you anything about animals that live in the lower 48, but I can with pretty good clarity, tell you about what is in my back yard, in most cases, better than the "Experts" that have an agenda. My agenda is the truth, which is pretty "Black and White". The fact that the earth has been warming for the last 20,000 years isn't new, just to some. It wasn't' started by man, and the next ice age won't be either.
Pretty arrogant to believe that we have that kind of power over the planet. We had a couple of Volcano's that blew ash into the air a few weeks ago that put more particulates into the air than man has in the last fifty years. As did Mt. Saint Helen when it blew, which did lower the earth's temp a degree or so for a couple of years if I recall correctly.
Regardless, if you live in the big cities, it is easy to believe that we have than kind of power when you see smog, but that is a very small point of contact verses the whole planet. But when you live in such an environment, you believe what people tell you.
We have natural forest fires here in Alaska that never make the evening news outside the state, but the smoke covers areas that would blanket most of the med. size states down south. All natural, and they put up more pollutants than man ever thought about.
In 1964, the Alaska Earthquake was 9.2 on the Richter Scale, the largest recorded earthquake ever recorded on the North American Continent. It released more energy in five Min's than man has ever produced. We are pretty cocky in our belief that we can control the world, that doesn't give us Card Blanche to make a mess either, but some common sense seems to be eluding the bulk of us...
People want electric cars, but have no clue to where the energy comes from to charge the batteries, which is coal, oil, gas, hydro, or nuclear to be exact and small amounts of wind.
To produce a solar panel it requires some pretty toxic chemicals to make one, and they do have a life span that is getting better, but not the answer either.
My point about the polar bears not being endangered is just that, they aren't but people are trying to use them as a weapon to stop oil exploration. The "Endangered" part was from excessive hunting in the 1950's and 60'swhich has all but stopped, that is why they have been increasing. It is an agenda, that is based on a lie to the public.
What was the reason that a couple of thousand years ago the Great Lakes were frozen over? Man didn't melt it, the same forces that have kept the ice from refreezing is what is melting it, pure and simple Nature or if you wish, God... Which is pretty "Black and White" other than your personal beliefs in what entity caused it... It just wasn't man...
starlite9, you have to remember that reality and common sense mean absolutely nothing to the leaf-licking crowd. It is only how one "feels" that matters. If you "feel" like mankind is polluting the planet, then it must be true! If you "feel" the polar bears may one day go extinct, then it has to be true! Reason be damned.
Starlite,
I got to hand it to you, you really have a knack for arguing with someone who agrees with you almost 100%! However, you do bring up a couple pretty good points:
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9
...Pretty arrogant to believe that we have that kind of power over the planet...
You use the argument that it would be arrogant to believe that we, man, could have any effect on the planet that compares even remotely in scale to things that nature does. At first, this sounds plausible, but are you really so sure? Most expert figures I’ve seen puts the total amount of oil that EVER existed on this planet at around 2 trillion barrels, and in the last one hundred or so years that we’ve been using oil, we’ve consumed roughly 1 trillion. Put in other words, in little over a century, man has been able to burn through and release HALF of all the oil this planet needed a geologic time scale to create. I don’t know about arrogant – that’s a word/emotion created by man – but clearly human activity has been able to affect things on a planetary scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9
...We had a couple of Volcano's that blew ash into the air a few weeks ago that put more particulates into the air than man has in the last fifty years. ...
This is claim also sounds plausible at first too, but where’s the proof? You’ve spent a great deal of this thread barking up one side of Floyd and down the other for making claims with no supporting evidence. Well, it goes both ways.
Just doing some quick calculations, take one trillion barrels X 42 gallons X 7 lbs per gallon = 294 trillion pounds, half of that if you want to make it the last 50 yrs so lets just call it 150 trillion pounds of stuff released into our atmosphere from burning oil (and that doesn’t account for coal, gas, etc). I have no idea what a typical volcano releases into our atmosphere. On the other hand, 150 trillion pounds is a bigger number than I can wrap my brain around either. Who knows, maybe that’s even MORE than a typical volcano.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9
...As did Mt. Saint Helen when it blew, which did lower the earth's temp a degree or so for a couple of years if I recall correctly...
So, you clearly acknowledge that Mt St Helen’s had a planetary wide effect on global temperatures. In other words, releasing pollution into the atmosphere does have an effect. What if it turns out that Mt St Helen’s only released 100 trillion pounds of stuff? Where do human effects on climate change stand then?
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