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Old 05-16-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: ABQ, NM
372 posts, read 711,839 times
Reputation: 148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
Albuquerque's water situation isn't near as bad as it's made out to be. NM still uses very little of its allotment of the Colorado River basin, and that's water Albuquerque can and will get at in the event water shortages start to happen.

Places like Atlanta and Los Angeles are far worse off, and yet look at Atlanta & LA grow.
What makes you think that Albuquerque will still be able to receive water from the Colorado River a couple of decades from now? I believe that LA also gets water from the river, so why would they be in trouble, but not us?

Edit:Albuquerque has the rights to 48,200 acre feet of water from the Colorado River system, while California is allowed 4.4 million acre feet (not sure how much of that goes to Los Angeles). Also consider the water levels of the lakes along the Colorado River, the water situation on this river is not in good condition.

Last edited by Stanrice; 05-16-2011 at 08:17 PM..
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,185,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanrice View Post
What makes you think that Albuquerque will still be able to receive water from the Colorado River a couple of decades from now? I believe that LA also gets water from the river, so why would they be in trouble, but not us?

Edit:Albuquerque has the rights to 48,200 acre feet of water from the Colorado River system, while California is allowed 4.4 million acre feet (not sure how much of that goes to Los Angeles). Also consider the water levels of the lakes along the Colorado River, the water situation on this river is not in good condition.
According to wikipedia, NM is allotted .84 million acre feet per year.

Perhaps you might have a source that shows Albuquerque ineligible for the other .79 million?

LA (aside from a few water recovery and desalination plants) does get its water from the Colorado via aqueducts; the difference is California is well over its allotment; if upstream users were over their allotment, downstream states would have less water than allotted and could sue (as Texas does to NM for the Rio Grande system). If downstream users exceed their allotment, they run out of water, leaving upstream users completely independent.

Since LA is the end of the line, Arizona and Nevada also exceeding their allotment can really endanger their water supply; states like NM who don't come close to using their whole allotment are allowing for a measure of give in the system.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:46 PM
 
Location: ABQ, NM
372 posts, read 711,839 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
According to wikipedia, NM is allotted .84 million acre feet per year.

Perhaps you might have a source that shows Albuquerque ineligible for the other .79 million?

LA (aside from a few water recovery and desalination plants) does get its water from the Colorado via aqueducts; the difference is California is well over its allotment; if upstream users were over their allotment, downstream states would have less water than allotted and could sue (as Texas does to NM for the Rio Grande system). If downstream users exceed their allotment, they run out of water, leaving upstream users completely independent.

Since LA is the end of the line, Arizona and Nevada also exceeding their allotment can really endanger their water supply; states like NM who don't come close to using their whole allotment are allowing for a measure of give in the system.
The information of how much is alloted to Albuquerque came from the city inself off of their website. It does not matter who is where on the river system, if there is no water, then nobody gets any. And it is not just cities and states given allotments, Native Americans have rights to the water as well as Mexico. If the amounts of water rights are added up and that number compared to the amount that flows in the river system, it is obvious that the water will disappear and that almost nobody will receive water. When that happens, I don't believe that Albuquerque will be close enough to the front of the line to get the water it is allotted.
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Old 05-17-2011, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,185,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanrice View Post
The information of how much is alloted to Albuquerque came from the city inself off of their website. It does not matter who is where on the river system, if there is no water, then nobody gets any.
I think that's a ridiculous oversimplification. That's like saying if the buffet runs out of food at 8:00pm, then nobody gets any all day.

Quote:
I don't believe that Albuquerque will be close enough to the front of the line to get the water it is allotted.
In the proverbial buffet, NM (and Albuquerque) show up at 5:00. It has one half-plate and skips the dessert bar. NM is guaranteed food because more than enough comes from upstream producers and its own production. California can hardly suck us dry if they're 5000 feet lower than us.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: ABQ, NM
372 posts, read 711,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
I think that's a ridiculous oversimplification. That's like saying if the buffet runs out of food at 8:00pm, then nobody gets any all day.
Do you know where the water comes from? It isn't simply created out of nothing. That's like saying the buffet runs out of food, the cooks don't show up, and the food cooks and serves itself. If there is little snowpack and it doesn't rain much, then there is no water to supply the river and no water to pump out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
In the proverbial buffet, NM (and Albuquerque) show up at 5:00. It has one half-plate and skips the dessert bar. NM is guaranteed food because more than enough comes from upstream producers and its own production. California can hardly suck us dry if they're 5000 feet lower than us.
So basically, we are guaranteed the water because we won't take much? Where else can we get drinking water from? The aquifer? The aquifer actually doesn't have enough left in it to sustain us, and some is being contaminated by jet fuel. Just because California is lower on the river does NOT mean we are automatically allowed to suck the river dry before it gets to them. There is no part of the compact of which New Mexico is part of that says that we get water before they do. In fact, the water there is, the less that is allotted to upstream users in order to allow everyone to try to get a piece of that pie. What about a series of dry years here? The federal government can and will force the city to stop pulling water from the Rio Grande whether or not some of that water is from the San Juan. Why? The silvery minnow, the fish that always comes before drinking water for us.
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:44 AM
 
508 posts, read 1,087,154 times
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Zoidberg, I suggest you look at the water rights, divisions, and appropriations of the Colorado river basin - the lower Colorado states (Arizona & Colorado) have rights over the waters' use in the event that they need to take New Mexico's or Colorado's (upper Colorado states) allotment.

New Mexico's share of the Colorado is far from secure...
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,185,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burquebinder View Post
Zoidberg, I suggest you look at the water rights, divisions, and appropriations of the Colorado river basin - the lower Colorado states (Arizona & Colorado) have rights over the waters' use in the event that they need to take New Mexico's or Colorado's (upper Colorado states) allotment.
I see no basis for this claim. I do find it interesting that I'm the only one providing citations to back up my claims.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: ABQ, NM
372 posts, read 711,839 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
I see no basis for this claim. I do find it interesting that I'm the only one providing citations to back up my claims.
You provided a link to a wikipedia article. I fail to see how that provides backup for any claim.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:38 PM
 
326 posts, read 872,095 times
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The Colorado River Compact divided water equally between Upper and Lower Basin states. The Upper Basin is required to deliver 7.5 maf/yr to the Lower. 11.25% of the remaining Upper Basin water is allocated to New Mexico.

Mexico is allotted 1.5 maf/yr.

It is harder to say what Native American water rights are. Lawsuits are under way at this time.

Bureau of Reclamation: Lower Colorado Region - Law of the River
Sharing Colorado River Water: History, Public Policy and the Colorado River Compact (http://ag.arizona.edu/azwater/arroyo/101comm.html - broken link)
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:31 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,087,154 times
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^Thanks for providing links to the info, Barney_rubble. The requirement that a certain flow (7.5 maf/year) be maintained to downstream communities, means that in the event that we have prolonged drought (as we have seen), our water allotment is reduced. Of course, this holds true for many states/regions - we also have to send a certain amount of Rio Grande water to Texas. Because we are an upper basin state, the burden of drought lies on us to use less.

But anecdotally, just look at the population and political power of areas like Southern California - if we are sharing with them, measly New Mexico will not be first in line.
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