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Sorry you feel that way DC, I respect your opinions, but I stick by my observation, and I'll tell you why.
First of all, we have a person that states on a public forum that these political and societal circumstances are driving her to think of suicide. I consider that pretty radical.
I don't believe there is anything that is that bad, but I'm not in her world.
For every single problem, big or small, there is a solution. The *only* issue is wether we want to pursue that solution.
I've had adolescents tell me that they're considering suicide before. Over what? Terminal illness? Long term abuse?
No, usually because mom & dad won't let them get their lip pierced or go out with certain people.
Tragedy comes early enough in life without inviting it.
I totally agree with you that the OP has a lot to offer, as most all here do.
As far as her trying to change Arkansas into a more tolerant place, or make any change on the percieved oppressive laws, I don't read every post, so maybe I missed it. Is she petitioning politicians, working for a PAC? Working the campaign of a pro-gay politician?
Arkansas is not going to be changed........soon.
Funny thing about this country...we can vote to make it *close* to the way we want it. There us a huge movement underway, as we espound our personal viewpoints....to make states rights stronger.
People in the individual states are tired of the feds dictating what they do.
People that work, raise families, pay taxes, support the 'underprivileged' population, and are now looking at paying for the college education of the kids of illegal immigrants.
A Rep in NC has introduced a bill to secede from the union again.
Groups of people tired of the environment and trying to change it.
Have you ever been to the "tenderloin" district in San Francisco or "Lakeview" (boistown) in Chicago?
I have. I've seen what happens first hand what happens when a "straight" goes into the bars and clubs. If their very, very lucky, they're just told to leave, but that's the exception.
It is *totally*, "We are gay, this is our area, so get the <heck> out".
That's pretty 'tolerant'. Don't wait around too long to join arms and sing, "We are the world".
Yes, D.C., I'll agree with you that it's too bad that the OP can't have all these laws and bills more gay friendly. It's also too bad that I have to wear clothes when it's so darn hot out and I've got to run to Wal Mart, or that NAMBLA has to struggle so much for their "cause".
These are not "bible thumping" however, these are based on the mores' and folkways of society that shape our conduct, or the display of it, to be in line with the society that we currently live in.
As mentioned, there are colonies, cities, and states that are 100% in line with the OP's desires, but in general, it's not Arkansas.
I'm politically active, DC, as I'm sure some others are here. I write checks, I carry petitions, I write letters, I meet with Reps, I attend fundraisers, and most important of all, I vote.
When I do, I choose my fights carefully.
Personally, I look at people losing jobs, getting foreclosed on, not having health insurance, trying to raise families with all this going on, government overspending, involvement in bleeding-money conflicts, rampant drug use and production, foreign investment inthe U.S., wildlife and environmental preservation...you know.....minor things like that.
When it comes to a bill that says that because I'm male, I can't marry Tommy Joe's son down the road.......
Well, I'd be happy to see someone fighting that fight if they so choose.
Fighting the fight, DC.
Not just complaining.
BTW, there are countries where the admission of being gay would mean execution.
Maybe....just maybe...we're a little more liberal than it appears.
It's a great day in the Ozarks.
If you think my only issue is just GLBT (Gay,lesbian, bisexual, transgender) issues then you have me ALL wrong.
In any case, just because you don't kill people PHYSICALLY for being gay doesn't mean your liberal. Passing laws to target people, keying cars (seen it happen to people), tailgating people, trying to run people off the road, etc is also a form of killing...IMO. Emotional torture.
I am ALWAYS up on the issues, trust me. My own representative said that I'm one of his most informed constituents. How many representatives can say that about an under 25 constituent?
I am ALWAYS up on the issues, trust me. My own representative said that I'm one of his most informed constituents. How many representatives can say that about an under 25 constituent?
Personally, I look at people losing jobs, getting foreclosed on, not having health insurance, trying to raise families with all this going on, government overspending, involvement in bleeding-money conflicts, rampant drug use and production, foreign investment inthe U.S., wildlife and environmental preservation...you know.....minor things like that.
[...]
Fighting the fight, DC.
Not just complaining.
Those are great issues--in fact I agree with you on all of them. What are some of the things you're doing to speak out on these issues? I've done some stuff.
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Funny thing about this country...we can vote to make it *close* to the way we want it.
That's true, Rog, to an extent. Sometimes the majority of people are wrong. Morality isn't a popularity contest. The majority of Arkansans would have voted FOR segregation in 1950 and FOR slavery in 1850. Now we have a black president, who 200 years ago (although not descended from slaves) would have only come to America in shackles in the dungeon of a ship.
That's why there are other methods for justice (like courts), and why our founding documents are hailed around the world as having "self-correcting" mechanisms built in, to evolve with perceptions of morality. When "all men are created equal" was written into the Declaration of Independence, it really meant all property-owning, white MEN. Now it means something closer to "all men."
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BTW, there are countries where the admission of being gay would mean execution.
Maybe....just maybe...we're a little more liberal than it appears.
This is hardly an argument: "Hey, we're not bad as x,y, or z." It's an excuse for mediocrity. You could use that for an excuse for anything, like removing social security and saying, "Hey, at least we aren't Azerbaijan."
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I have. I've seen what happens first hand what happens when a "straight" goes into the bars and clubs. If their very, very lucky, they're just told to leave, but that's the exception.
It is *totally*, "We are gay, this is our area, so get the <heck> out".
That's pretty 'tolerant'. Don't wait around too long to join arms and sing, "We are the world".
That's unfortunate. Trust me, I would dislike these particular gays as much as anyone if I encountered them.
Then again, I wonder how openly gay people feel going to...rural Arkansas. Or even worse, to "bars and clubs" in Arkansas. Or, let's take another step back, how do they feel about being abridged citizens in the whole NATION? I wonder how they feel about the fact that "lesbians and gay men are entitled to certain rights of existence, but these are extremely circumscribed, being constructed largely on the condition that they remain in the private sphere and do not seek public recognition or membership in the political community" (from the journal article). I used your technique, but for gays it's even more consequential.
I started this thread to discuss Mike Huckabee's accomplishments as Arkansas Governor and now it's turned into some gay nonsense. Sheesh people, can we stay on topic?
I started this thread to discuss Mike Huckabee's accomplishments as Arkansas Governor and now it's turned into some gay nonsense. Sheesh people, can we stay on topic?
Oh, you only wanted to hear good things about Huckabee? No criticisms, huh?
I started this thread to discuss Mike Huckabee's accomplishments as Arkansas Governor and now it's turned into some gay nonsense. Sheesh people, can we stay on topic?
There is always this amazing thing called a search engine if you really want to know....
Those are great issues--in fact I agree with you on all of them. What are some of the things you're doing to speak out on these issues? I've done some stuff.
Aaaahh, ridcter. I'm not doing nearly as much as I use to. If I named names here, I'd be the immediate target of slings and arrows fom some, kudos from others, and a lot would still not understand that although he was railed against for *this*, he was applauded for *this*. It's a give and take world.
This is hardly an argument: "Hey, we're not bad as x,y, or z." It's an excuse for mediocrity. You could use that for an excuse for anything, like removing social security and saying, "Hey, at least we aren't Azerbaijan."
Perspective, ridcter.
If one is smart, the mirror is his best friend. Find that who you wish to be like, and work in that direction. I would imagine that during one's life that person you wish to emulate will change radically, but one must always have a goal for improvement.
What country would we look at and wish to emulate? What state? I frequently see the posts of we should have this 'n' that in Arkansas because it's neat and some other state has it.
That's unfortunate. Trust me, I would dislike these particular gays as much as anyone if I encountered them.
Then again, I wonder how openly gay people feel going to...rural Arkansas. Or even worse, to "bars and clubs" in Arkansas. Or, let's take another step back, how do they feel about being abridged citizens in the whole NATION? I wonder how they feel about the fact that "lesbians and gay men are entitled to certain rights of existence, but these are extremely circumscribed, being constructed largely on the condition that they remain in the private sphere and do not seek public recognition or membership in the political community" (from the journal article). I used your technique, but for gays it's even more consequential.
No, Arkansas certainly isn't a gay mecca, and never will be.
As much as some would like to feel that we should welcome gays, transgenders, transvestites, NAMBLA practitioners, S/M practitioners/ bondage enthusiasts/ self mutilators/ autoerotic asphyxiation/ wife swappers........endless list.....
It ain't gonna happen.
What's all this other stuff got to do with the conversation?
Each and every one of those exists in Arkansas.
Each and every one of those feel they have the "right" to practice.
Under the same arrgument of gay rights, and legislation, in an "equal" setting, they should have legislation to protect them and ensure they're not going to be disciminated against.
Except them NAMBLA dudes, but I strongly suspect they'll be on this forum in 20 years pleading their case. They're on other forums now.
You cite slavery and how arkansas would have voted.
How long do you think it's been since a same sex couple walking down the street would have been promptly "dealt with"?
The south is not progressive. Not as much as a lot of the country. It never has been.
I encourage anybody to seek change that they feel needs to be brought about in a peaceful, constructive way. I think I made that point.
I fought for issues for years.
Now I support them.
My issues, my change list, is mine. To be discussed with friends at social hour and politicians at the correct time.
Not to a relocation forum for the debate of the masses.
No, I won't do the political forum.
Like I tried to point out....ball's in your court. It's a young man's game. I certainly didn't come to Arkansas to champion causes and right the wrong.
I came here to sit on my deck and appreciate another sunrise and sunset (as I have every day since 1973), drive my tractor, feed the turkey,eat the turkey, feed the deer, eat the deer, talk to friends, make more friends, shoot my guns, plant my trees and garden, drink pure water, hold my wife's hand and play with my dogs.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to go do more of the last two now.
No, Arkansas certainly isn't a gay mecca, and never will be.
As much as some would like to feel that we should welcome gays, transgenders, transvestites, NAMBLA practitioners, S/M practitioners/ bondage enthusiasts/ self mutilators/ autoerotic asphyxiation/ wife swappers........endless list.....
It ain't gonna happen.
Please don't equate gays and lesbians with the ones I have highlighted.
Many straight people engage in S/M, bonade, and I've known plenty of self harmers who were heterosexual..etc.
A lot of these things are practiced in the home, which has nothing to do with me nor do I care about them, except for NAMBLA which I feel is sick.
The vast majority of gays and lesbians are not the limp wristed **** many people would like to believe nor are all the lesbians bull dykes.
We don't want every single person of the same sex and we are not sex maniancs.
We are people too, we just love differently.
I don't want to be treated with special treatment because of my sexual orientation. I just want to be treated like everyone else without my sexual orientation being such a big deal.
I pay my taxes like everyone else, I obey the laws, I work hard in college, I plan to make more contributions to society, etc yet so many people think because of a certain characteristic about me that they can compare me to a child molester, a terrorist, a drug addict, etc. and deny me rights.
I hate the topic has gotten so offtrack but eh...it happens.
Where have you seen anyone advocate that we welcome the list of people I highlighted in bold?
I think you've been watching too many Focus on The Family videos making gays and lesbians out to be some of the most evil people in the world. Far from it.
I'm done with this topic on this particular forum. I don't think I'll get anywhere with you and that's okay. I'm having a great day because of the ruling in Iowa. You can't possibly bring me down.
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