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The specificity of the OP makes such adamant rejection understandable. But it would not be if . . . as I believe it is . . . Christianity is a way of life and state of mind . . . and not a set of mandated beliefs.
Oh, come now. It is a set of beliefs that defines what constitutes Christianity vs. other "ways of life" such as, say, Islam. You can't hide behind some variant of the old "relationship vs religion" hand-waving dismissal so as to be unsullied by those beliefs and their implications and inconsistencies.
There is not a pure root of Christian beliefs that is so different from Christian practice that it matters. Some Christians conduct a better way of life and have better states of mind than others ... but I regard this is as being in spite of their beliefs, rather than because of them.
That sure seemed like what he was saying. I mean..it seemed straight forward enough.
If you truly understood what agnostic soldier was saying, your initial response wouldn't make any sense.
I'm the same way as soldier. If Christianity, as it is commonly understood, was proven to me to be true, I would absolutely not follow it. And that has nothing to do with being closed minded. It has everything to do with me thinking it is harmful and that God would be a monster. I would accept that the universe is the way it is with the Christian God, but I could never become a Christian, as it would be morally reprehensible for me to do.
But that has nothing to do with being "closed-minded." Rather, my mind would be open enough to realize just what God is, not what he claims to be.
If I had the proof/overwhelming evidence and still claimed the Christian god didn't exist, then I would be closed minded. But that isn't what agnostic soldier or I am saying.
close minded are those who blindly follow some ancient book and some old story about deities and saints and so on..and don't ever question or accept that not everyone will do the same and believe what you believe. That's close minded. Most atheists have thought long and hard about all that stuff and don't go round bashing religious folks.
Vizio, you don't seem to understand that there is a qualitative difference between believing something as true and actually following it. For example, suppose that the Lochness Monster was not only proven to exist, but was also the supreme ruler of the universe and had a list of moral prescriptions and practices that you were to follow. Would you consider yourself closed minded if you accepted it as true but didn't become a follower of the Lochness Monster? Below are posts that correctly interpret what I was saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
Not to put words in agnostic soldier's mouth, but I get the impression he is not saying that he wouldn't believe in Christianity if there were evidence to support some of its more incredulous claims, but rather that even if he came to believe, through some evidence, that the basic elements and tenets of Christianity were true, he wouldn't follow them, i e. become a Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
But then, you are always looking for your own carefully quote-minded and Selectively Convenient interpretations. It's now been explained exactly what he meant, but even then, out of the mouth of it's author, or another correct interpretor, you choose, on purpose, to revise it.
If you truly understood what agnostic soldier was saying, your initial response wouldn't make any sense.
I'm the same way as soldier. If Christianity, as it is commonly understood, was proven to me to be true, I would absolutely not follow it. And that has nothing to do with being closed minded. It has everything to do with me thinking it is harmful and that God would be a monster. I would accept that the universe is the way it is with the Christian God, but I could never become a Christian, as it would be morally reprehensible for me to do.
But that has nothing to do with being "closed-minded." Rather, my mind would be open enough to realize just what God is, not what he claims to be.
If I had the proof/overwhelming evidence and still claimed the Christian god didn't exist, then I would be closed minded. But that isn't what agnostic soldier or I am saying.
Before Jesus:
You only had to be a good person to get into heaven.
After Jesus:
You have to----
a) Hope you're lucky enough to ever hear "The Good News"
b) Be able to find it believable in the first place
c) Interpret the New Testament correctly and follow all the rules just so
Actually it is worse. Christians claim that salvation is a gift from their god. No one deserves it and no one is good enough to earn it. So There's really nothing you can do - either God decides on a whim you're saved, or maybe you're unlucky and he uses you as an example for all of his other chosen ones. Nothing you can do.
Actually it is worse. Christians claim that salvation is a gift from their god. No one deserves it and no one is good enough to earn it. So There's really nothing you can do - either God decides on a whim you're saved, or maybe you're unlucky and he uses you as an example for all of his other chosen ones. Nothing you can do.
Sounds like life before Jesus was a lot better.
Woa, Nelly! Depends on your brand of christian. This is one of the keys to the Lutheran / Catholic split. But this is definitely not universal christian teaching.
Actually it is worse. Christians claim that salvation is a gift from their god. No one deserves it and no one is good enough to earn it. So There's really nothing you can do - either God decides on a whim you're saved, or maybe you're unlucky and he uses you as an example for all of his other chosen ones. Nothing you can do.
Sounds like life before Jesus was a lot better.
On one hand, before Jesus came along God might wipe out your entire city, command his favorite army to completely destroy all life in your city, or even wipe out nearly all life on the planet with a flood. He might turn your wife to salt for disobeying one tiny command, take your life for attempting to stop a sacred object from falling over, command you to kill your child to "test" you, or just make your life a living hell to "test" you.
On the other hand, none of those are as bad as spending your life being the best person you can, but still going to hell for eternity.
On the other hand, none of those are as bad as spending your life being the best person you can, but still going to hell for eternity.
Yeah, going to hell for an eternity would be a bummer.
Of course, it is also a bummer to spend hours and hours praying to a god to save you from a so-called hell only to find out that when you die you are just ... dead.
Yeah, going to hell for an eternity would be a bummer.
Of course, it is also a bummer to spend hours and hours praying to a god to save you from a so-called hell only to find out that when you die you are just ... dead.
But how would you ever find that out? You have no further consciousness.
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