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The clear trick being played by people like the OP is to act like each of us has to prove our own position
I have not asked to prove something. But to give good positive reasons for strong atheists to held their position.
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and if we fail then the other “wins”.
Wins, who has a better explanation for the question. Just beating on theists wont do it.
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For theists with no evidence
Who told you i have no evidence ?
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this is the ONLY game to play because since they can not defend their own claims they simply attack the claims of others
present good reasons, and may they be more convincing than the answers given by theists. Thats up to each reader to decide by its own. So far, all atheists have miserably failed to give straightforward and convincing answers.
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No, the question of where the universe “came from” is an Open Question. None of us know at this time
We will probably never know for sure, but we can analise the evidence, and each one can come to its own conclusion.
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At this time there is simply no arguments, evidence, data or reasons on offer to think that there is a god or that it created our universe.
Thats a standard argument of atheists. Unfortunately, a pretty stupid one. We exist. The universe exists. That demands a answer. God is one of the possible answers.
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Again the origin of the universe is an open question. By all means use your imagination to come up with possible answers… including “god did it” if you want… but do so realizing that that is only step 1 and unless you do step 2… substantiate that idea… then all you are engaged in is fantasy. Fantasy is a GOOD thing but only if you stop short of presenting your fantasies as fact… or even as credible… in the absence of anything to support them.
I can make the exact same argument in regard of strong atheism. any explanation that makes me think strong atheism has good reasons to be ?
Its pretty simple. From absolutely nothing, nothing derives. The universe was not eternal, but, as scientific knowledge pretty sure suggests, the universe had a beginning. Therefore a cause.
And here's the crux. Nonbelievers are fine with saying "I don't know." We do not know all of the mechanisms behind how matter and energy came to be.
So they keep hiding behind willfull ignorance, despite the fact that never before in history there was so much scientific knowledge of our surrounding.......
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Through science we endeavor to learn and increase in knowledge by observing, hypothesizing, testing, sharing data across disciplines, holding findings up for peers to review and then putting forth theories. There is much we do not know and many phenomena that happen in the universe and which are a part of perception and reality that we don't even know the existence of as yet.
And there is a LOT we DO know, which permits a lot of predictions......
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Many things which may seem supernatural or magical to us now may very well have a perfectly natural explanation.
Like complex , specified information, as contained in each living cell ?!!
Do you honestly believe, Shakespeares Hamlet could be the result of pure chance, or physical necessity ?
that is just a example......
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In ancient times, humans believed that floods, crop failures, eclipses, volcanic activity, earthquakes, etc., were the result of demons or angry gods. We now know how and why such things occur--no invisible supernatural beings needed at all.
without volcanos, earthquakes, amongst many other natural phenomenas, life would not be possible on earth...... the whole universe is finely tuned to permit life on earth. Chance this to be by chance has been calculated to be unimaginably remote. how do you explain this in a reasonable way, excluding purpose and will ??
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Now we question how we came to be. How the cosmos of matter and energy came to be. For some, it is comfortable and acceptable to say "Of course a god or gods are responsible for it." For others, we seek an actual explanation that relies on knowledge and the acquisition of knowledge. We may never learn all the particulars. We may have to remain content to say "We do not know, with a certainty, how everything came to be."
And what does it need to say confidently : we can exclude chance and physical necessity for sure ( the only two alternatives to a creator ) ??
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Perhaps in some realm of the universe, some aspect of reality, some corner of some dimension, there ARE beings we would consider god-like. Whether or not gods exist is simply beyond what any human knows.
We do not know in the sense of having absolute proofs, but we don't need them to get the best explanation based on what we do know .
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But, given the 100% total lack of evidence for gods
based on what do you come to that conclusion ?
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, I see no reason to default to the belief in them or in a "creator." Admittedly, I could be wrong.
so your conclusion is not 100% sure, as you said above ?
Obviously not! KC is trying to show Jah that until he shows why there must be a cause for the universe, it is a waste of time to try to substantiate what that cause must be.
pretty easy :
everything that begins to exist , has a cause.
the universe began to exist.
therefore it has a cause.
Such finding are about possible origins as parallel universes
evidence ?
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, time/space vibrations,
did time/space exist beyond the big Bang ?
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new findings in sub-atomic particle interactions
what do they evidence ?
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, the now established possibility [and high probability of course, sine it was first hypothesized but then actually seen and documented..] of a Higgs boson matter- and thus gravity-generator!
yes ? what does it help to understand, that makes strong atheism a good hypotheses ?
Do you honestly believe, Shakespeares Hamlet could be the result of pure chance, or physical necessity ?
Shakespeare was not born on a desert island, grew up, invented language, invented writing, invented narrative, invented rhyming, invented angst and lust etc, etc.
Shakespeare and his play Hamlet were the result of thousands of tears of language evolution, of oral stirytelling and written stirytelling. He drew on a rich literary tradition in which stories which were good became successful and were used to inculcate the next generation into the tradition, and stories which were dull or not beautiful were not shared with many people and so died out.
Nice evoltuionary analogy, thanks for thinking of it!
Thats a standard argument of atheists. Unfortunately, a pretty stupid one. We exist. The universe exists. That demands a answer. God is one of the possible answers.
Once upon a time, we did not know that the earth traveled around the sun. People wanted an explanation for why the sun rose and set each day and night. So they believed that Apollo carried across the sky in his chariot. That did not make it the case. WANTING an answer does not make choosing an answer at random sensible.
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I can make the exact same argument in regard of strong atheism. any explanation that makes me think strong atheism has good reasons to be ?
I am not a "strong" atheist, as it seems that asserts that there is no god. I have no evidence for the lack of a god. But it seems a perfectly reasonable default position. Do you believe that that unobtainium exists? Or that the flying spaghetti monster does? There is no evidence that they DON'T. But it seems reasonable to assume, lacking any evidence to support their existence, to assume not.
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