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So why when some overweight people are taunted, it gives them the courage to lose weight?
Or a slob to clean up? Or a lazy person on the sports team to give their all.
Not that hazing is the best way to get a result, and certainly people can be cruel, but it also can be a wake up call to someone not living to their highest potential.
One can choose right from wrong without fear. I don't fear drug abusers, porno-addicts, cross dressers or gays.
I do know it is not the best life that one can choose.
godpspeed,
freedom
So is "taunting" how some Christians think they're going to get gay people to "convert"? By making life miserable for gay people, you're not going to get them to "convert". It can't be done and you're fighting biology.
The main flaw in your reasoning is that you believe gay people can turn straight.
You might want to re-think fearing drug abusers. Meth and Crack drive people to violent crime. Nobody ever robbed a 7-11 to get a "gay" fix.
So is "taunting" how some Christians think they're going to get gay people to "convert"? By making life miserable for gay people, you're not going to get them to "convert". It can't be done and you're fighting biology.
The main flaw in your reasoning is that you believe gay people can turn straight.
You might want to re-think fearing drug abusers. Meth and Crack drive people to violent crime. Nobody ever robbed a 7-11 to get a "gay" fix.
Again that simply is not true, there are many that have chosen to leave the gay life, after years of homosexuality. If people choose to be or act out their desires that is up to them.
But to say that it is not something that can be overcome is simply false.
Man has shown time and again the great abilities and potential we have to grow and learn and not be sealed to any certain fate. If we put it in our minds that we can do something, there is no stopping us.
Most gay people i know and have worked with say they wouldn't wish their life on anyone, and i have to believe that they are telling the truth. Some have even said they feel victimized by the urges and do them when they don't want to, which generally leads them to numbing agents (alchohol and drugs) there are other parallels in life where the same things are said, but if i mention them they will become the focus and not be taken in the way i am truly meaning.
Again that simply is not true, there are many that have chosen to leave the gay life, after years of homosexuality. If people choose to be or act out their desires that is up to them.
But to say that it is not something that can be overcome is simply false.
So following this line of reasoning are you also suggesting that when they first started to become sexually active as a gay person that they had chosen to leave the heterosexual life style after years of being straight? I really don't think you can change your sexuality like you're changing your clothes. I recall hearing a statement from a supposedly reformed gay person on a documentary several years ago and the guy said the only time he even thinks about other men now is when he masturbates. That kind of sums up how successful his "cure" was.
So following this line of reasoning are you also suggesting that when they first started to become sexually active as a gay person that they had chosen to leave the heterosexual life style after years of being straight?
I've had friends that have done this, yes.
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I really don't think you can change your sexuality like you're changing your clothes
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I disagree, it takes a thought and an act. No different. If you choose to act on an impulse one way or another, then it is just like changing your clothes. Do you have a wife and daughters? Picking out clothes can get pretty interesting sometimes.
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I recall hearing a statement from a supposedly reformed gay person on a documentary several years ago and the guy said the only time he even thinks about other men now is when he masturbates. That kind of sums up how successful his "cure" was.
He is successful to the degree that he desires to be, i applaud his efforts and sacrafices.
I disagree, it takes a thought and an act. No different. If you choose to act on an impulse one way or another, then it is just like changing your clothes.
Then what you're really saying is you can just make a decision to change your sexuality and somehow it happens but I have to ask, if there weren't any moral issues regarding homosexuality could you just decide to be a homosexual and suddenly be one? I know I couldn't, my brain just isn't wired that way. What I think is really going on is that people who are gay or lesbian and are also religious have this tremendous shame and guilt dumped on them by the inflexible attitude that Christianity has regarding this issue. What they end up doing is trying to suppress what they really desire and go through this play acting of being heterosexual to everyone around them. I would think that would be a miserable existence and I don't see the point in living like that.
Then what you're really saying is you can just make a decision to change your sexuality and somehow it happens but I have to ask, if there weren't any moral issues regarding homosexuality could you just decide to be a homosexual and suddenly be one? I know I couldn't, my brain just isn't wired that way.
It happens everyday, especially in our confused youth. Kids in school are using the choice of sexuality like its a popularity contest, peer pressure will surely increase the percentage of active gays in the coming generations. In thee if it feels good do it generation, bored youth do many things that they wouldn't otherwise ever think of doing, and the media and activists are feeding it non stop.
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What I think is really going on is that people who are gay or lesbian and are also religious have this tremendous shame and guilt dumped on them by the inflexible attitude that Christianity has regarding this issue. What they end up doing is trying to suppress what they really desire and go through this play acting of being heterosexual to everyone around them. I would think that would be a miserable existence and I don't see the point in living like that.
I'm sure that there is shame in some that seek God. Just as there is a shame in anyother weakness that one may have yet to overcome. We have a remarkable gift of conscience and when we are out of the way, a bell goes off.
If it was truly not a choice, then i believe the moral highground would have prevailed long ago. This is a lifestyle that has been shunned by the masses since the beginning of time, by all races, religions, and creeds. Until now it certainly has never been taught as an option, and something that one should consider experimenting with.
It happens everyday, especially in our confused youth. Kids in school are using the choice of sexuality like its a popularity contest, peer pressure will surely increase the percentage of active gays in the coming generations. In thee if it feels good do it generation, bored youth do many things that they wouldn't otherwise ever think of doing, and the media and activists are feeding it non stop.
But freedom, seriously, don't you think you'd really have to want to do it? You make it sound like it's nothing more than trying a different brand of beer or driving a Ford instead of a Chevy. Do you really think a couple of guys who'd never felt any attraction to men in their lives would suddenly hop in the sack like it was no big deal? I don't believe they would, I know that even in my dumbest teenage years I wouldn't have even considered such a thing. Honestly, I don't think you're looking at this issue realistically or considering all of the aspects that make up someone's sexual nature. I realize you're very religious and that is your primary motivation for taking this position on the issue but I don't think religion is up to the task of understanding the complexity of human sexuality and the basic unfairness that is being placed on people who are homosexuals.
But freedom, seriously, don't you think you'd really have to want to do it? You make it sound like it's nothing more than trying a different brand of beer or driving a Ford instead of a Chevy.
Hey, it was not that easy to change from a Ford to a Dodge...okay!
But to your point. I think it is a bit different from beverage choice, though with inhabitions lowered by intoxicants or peer pressure or both, then i think it is not implausible. 2 of my daughters have been hit on by girls that have boyfriends. It's all good out there now...
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Do you really think a couple of guys who'd never felt any attraction to men in their lives would suddenly hop in the sack like it was no big deal? I don't believe they would, I know that even in my dumbest teenage years I wouldn't have even considered such a thing.
It may not be the norm, but it does and has happened just that way.
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Honestly, I don't think you're looking at this issue realistically or considering all of the aspects that make up someone's sexual nature.
Unfortunately it is realistic. I am not speaking from ignorance.
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I realize you're very religious and that is your primary motivation for taking this position on the issue but I don't think religion is up to the task of understanding the complexity of human sexuality and the basic unfairness that is being placed on people who are homosexuals.
Regardless of my belief, my opinion is the same. I have not always desired to live according to godly principles.
Again unfortunately i understand sexuality all too well, i have known (not in the biblical sense...lol) hundreds of gays, have worked with and for them, both male and female, lived with them in London, LA, and Palm Springs. Have family members and friends that are gay, neighbors and aquaintances. Some of them are tremendously kind, some of them are not so nice.
I speak from experience not from what any pastor or book has said, though i take the bible as God's word.
I may have to request that this thread be closed. This is not the kind of discussion that I had hoped for; it has completely veered off topic and has become like every other homosexual thread on this forum. I thought that by tailoring it to atheists/agnostics that I would limit the amount of responses I received from religious militants, but it is clear that some people have an agenda and are hell-bent on ruining productive discussions for everyone else.
Regardless of my belief, my opinion is the same. I have not always desired to live according to godly principles.
Again unfortunately i understand sexuality all too well, i have known (not in the biblical sense...lol) hundreds of gays, have worked with and for them, both male and female, lived with them in London, LA, and Palm Springs. Have family members and friends that are gay, neighbors and aquaintances. Some of them are tremendously kind, some of them are not so nice.
I speak from experience not from what any pastor or book has said, though i take the bible as God's word.
That was an interesting statement and I don't want to be too personal but could you elaborate on your experiences with gay people? I've only known a few gay people who were coworkers. There was a woman I knew at work for at least ten years and we'd gotten to be pretty good friends because she was also interested in photography and then one day she told me she was a lesbian. She was just telling a few people who she felt close to but she wasn't really open about it. I had no problem with that at all. I'm just wondering if you've met someone who was gay who you really disliked and it's caused you to dislike gays in general. I'm curious about your statement that you understand sexuality all too well. I know you can't be too bad of a guy because afterall, you do play a PRS guitar! I guess we just have some very different opinions on this subject but what I really feel strongly is that gays and lesbians deserve to live a fulfilling life without being harassed by the heterosexual majority of society.
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I guess we just have some very different opinions on this subject but what I really feel strongly is that gays and lesbians deserve to live a fulfilling life without being harassed by the heterosexual majority of society.