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Finding truth makes untruth irrelevant. You seem to be in an your right needs somebody elses wrong sought of frame of mind.
If I follow your point correctly, finding truth is dependent on finding out whether something is (on all evidence) true or false. Our discussion here is on the evidential merits of what you call true and what I call true.
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Once again my point. Atheists are untruth dependent. Not really truth dependent at all.
I suppose that's a way of putting it. If atheism is simply the non-belief in any gods, it is the failure of any convincing evidence for gods that conditions that. However, to take that and try to make a propaganda point out of it is really unworthy. And of course atheists have much more in their lives than just not believing in gods. There is a lot more that they consider 'true' that is important to them.
It's been well said that atheists do not believe in nothing. They believe in everything - except gods.
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Well, what has your logic, reason and scientific method revealed to be the truth for you? That's what you really believe in. Logic, reason and scientific reason are tools, not answers or a truth within themselves, wouldn't you agree?
Certainly. They are useful mental tools. The 'truth' that I have is the material world. That's pretty demonstrable. The imponderables that are the dabbling - grounds of fringe science and cults are interesting and as yet unprovable. What is as yet unproven cannot yet be considered 'true'.
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I will tell you what I believe in. I believe in space. With, of course, logic, reason and scientific method applied to it.
How odd. I'd say that space (which matter mostly is, of course) exists (or not, depending on how one looks at it) with or without logic etc. applied to it. However, as regards truth, a JW once asked me 'What is your truth?' I could only reply that his truth and my truth was irrelevant. There is only what is and all we have to do is to use the mental tools to discover what that is, as much as we can.
How odd. I'd say that space (which matter mostly is, of course) exists (or not, depending on how one looks at it) with or without logic etc. applied to it. However, as regards truth, a JW once asked me 'What is your truth?' I could only reply that his truth and my truth was irrelevant. There is only what is and all we have to do is to use the mental tools to discover what that is, as much as we can.
So maybe we are in agreement here.
Not really in agreement. You (and JW who i am not familar with) seem to be agnostic. Your line seems to be the only truth is that truth is unknowable. Forgive if I have done a wrong reading of the intent of your post.
Not sure why a belief in the fruits of logic applied to space would be odd. Really don't.
Anyway today is the birthday of Adam and Eve. It twas the 23rd of October when they were created according to modern interpretation. A little over 6,000 years ago.
An atheists says "that's wrong. Universe much older". And sets about debunking it.
An evolutionists says "That's intersting. Wonder why that idea evolved."
An evolutionist has a happier more interesting life than an atheist I would say. A life without venom against those who are wrong, just a life in wonder of it all, a life that ultimately says, well I dunno what an evolutionist ultimately says.
Not really in agreement. You (and JW who i am not familar with) seem to be agnostic. Your line seems to be the only truth is that truth is unknowable. Forgive if I have done a wrong reading of the intent of your post.
Not sure why a belief in the fruits of logic applied to space would be odd. Really don't.
Anyway today is the birthday of Adam and Eve. It twas the 23rd of October when they were created according to modern interpretation. A little over 6,000 years ago.
An atheists says "that's wrong. Universe much older". And sets about debunking it.
An evolutionists says "That's intersting. Wonder why that idea evolved."
An evolutionist has a happier more interesting life than an atheist I would say. A life without venom against those who are wrong, just a life in wonder of it all, a life that ultimately says, well I dunno what an evolutionist ultimately says.
JW. A Jehovah's witness. It may be that truth is (ultimately) unknowable - at least by us. That is why science doesn't claim to know everything.
What it does claim to know is verified by the soundest methods we have been able to devise. What we don't know anything about has to be regarded as 'just a theory' (which means 'hypothesis') and should not be taken as fact. It should not be believed.
I'm not sure what the fruits of logic are. Nor how they would be applied to space. It sounds an odd sort of concept to me.
Don't think so. Mitochondrial Eve is around 200,000 years ago and I don't think anyone knows the birthdate.
Nope. An atheist says 'there's no reason to believe in any god', and that is all an atheist says. As to what an evolutionist says, you better ask one. I don't know whether they are happier or not, but I do know their theory is pretty convincing.
Hey guys, we've either got to keep in civil, or the thread goes.
Okay?
Of course.
This is the way it works: If your popularity rating is high enough one is free in this forum to freely toss about any sort of derisive comment on a regular basis. The minute one of us not in the 'clique' decides to call them out - we get deleted.
June, please go back and take note of which one of us has been routinely engaged in the art of the ad hominem.
I stand by my deleted assertion. If this Arequipa fellow were in a face to face he wouldn't have the gumption to state one tenth of the derision that he regularly doles out from behind the safety of his computer terminal.
My last word on this. I can and have justified and explained every accusation of illogic, misrepresentation, trickiness and presentation of personal opinion as evidence. I rather regret the abusive terms I used but I was desperately trying to 'get through' as they say.
So let's hear from another caller who, having nothing else, tries to use physical intimidation albeit safely over the phone.
Hey guys, we've either got to keep in civil, or the thread goes.
Okay?
I would also direct your attention to the thread entitled: "Stilllllkiiit...oh Stiiilllkiiitt...." Post #12.
You know, if you and the other so called quote "moderators" unquote, were doing your jobs, I wouldn't be in the position of having to call out other posters for cowardly behavior.
I find it interesting that you chose only to quote the "wouldn't have the balls" portion of the deleted post. The only parts you deleted were the portions that were most certainly on topic and quite civil and most appropriate with regard to the OP.
But why bother, this is what happens when the referees decide to put on team uniforms instead of being referees.
Oh, and kudos to you for getting your buddy off the hook. He really did need bailing out - great timing!
Last edited by tigetmax24; 10-24-2009 at 06:38 AM..
Reason: Kudos and Kudos
I'm not sure what the fruits of logic are. Nor how they would be applied to space. It sounds an odd sort of concept to me.
Fruits of logic means what you have worked out using logic.
If you care to apply logic to space, begin by logically working out what space is when space is devoid of what you regard as matter.
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
Don't think so. Mitochondrial Eve is around 200,000 years ago and I don't think anyone knows the birthdate.
It is true. Biblical scholars have assessed that god set adam and eve on earth on the 23rd of October a little over 6,000 years ago. (Interesting that you respect the bible with your use of eve denote an original woman)
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
Nope. An atheist says 'there's no reason to believe in any god', and that is all an atheist says. As to what an evolutionist says, you better ask one. I don't know whether they are happier or not, but I do know their theory is pretty convincing.
This part of your reply is not really coherent with what I posted. Doesn't matter though. I was projecting an atheists response to a specific question. Not generalizing about what an atheist says.
Fruits of logic means what you have worked out using logic.
If you care to apply logic to space, begin by logically working out what space is when space is devoid of what you regard as matter.
It is true. Biblical scholars have assessed that god set adam and eve on earth on the 23rd of October a little over 6,000 years ago. (Interesting that you respect the bible with your use of eve denote an original woman)
This part of your reply is not really coherent with what I posted. Doesn't matter though. I was projecting an atheists response to a specific question. Not generalizing about what an atheist says.
Fruits of logic? Does that mean Theists are bad apples?
Just kidding!
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