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I think your post would be more persuasive if you got agnostics and atheists the right way round. Surely you mean agnostics are the wimps and atheists the pains in the ass?
I suspect you may be correct, just from my own personal experience, yes, I am an atheist and many times I have been called a "pain in the ass" but.... I have never been called a "wimp".
Glad to see your mind started to work after you referred to an official definition.
We weren't/aren't talking about belljars or the material universe though. We are talking about what would exist if there was no material universe.
The theist answer, and seemingly yours, is nothing would exists if the material universe doesn't exist.
The question posed is length, width and breadth nothing?
And, alternatively can there be an absence of length, width and breadth?
Remember we are talking about a total absence of what you regard as matter.
Other posters regard this as getting off topic and that's fair enough.
Then let us end with this utterly honest and non smart-arse answer.
"The theist answer, and seemingly yours, is nothing would exists if the material universe doesn't exist."
It is a reasonable supposition that nothing would exist (which is the same as saying that everything would not exist) if all matter (which I suspect is what you have in mind by 'material universe' in the universe when 'phut'.
This is, of course, purely theoretical and rather akin to the interesting question of whether, if the molten core of the earth was removed, we would no longer have to put up with earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes and whether that would be actually be, overall, a good thing.
As an agnostic, I don't have any problem with atheists as long as they aren't trying to break my will. The same can be said for those that believe in a deity.
As an agnostic, I don't have any problem with atheists as long as they aren't trying to break my will. The same can be said for those that believe in a deity.
I can relate to that. Of course, if a 'Will' is so unbending that it prefers the unbelievable to the demonstrable, it could benefit from a bit of warm - hands massage.
I can relate to that. Of course, if a 'Will' is so unbending that it prefers the unbelievable to the demonstrable, it could benefit from a bit of warm - hands massage.
It's scary, but everyone has their "cause" whether they know what they're really fighting for or not.
It's scary, but everyone has their "cause" whether they know what they're really fighting for or not.
I agree that's a very common (but actually rather illogical) human standpoint. That's why the scientific method is so important. It has built in safeguards to try to eliminate preferential bias in coming to conclusions.
It's why logic is so important in and outside science, because reasoning by using strings of self - justifying logical fallacies and biased samples, comes naturally to us.
I'm really 'selfish', I don't care if anyone else is an atheist or not...I am not about numbers and trying to convince people they're wrong for what they believe but I expect the same in return from everyone else....I know what I know and that's what I live with and I like it that way!
That strikes me as a very unselfish or at least tolerant attitude. I have to say that I am not so tolerant and even a bit bigoted about matters as whether we live in a society with a rational worldview or a faith -based worldview. provided the worldview is based on logical and evidence- based parameters rather than dogmatic ones, I am happy to leave people to think whatever they like.
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