Design Your Own MARTA Expansion (Atlanta, Dunwoody: hotels, tenants, prices)

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by testa50

Interesting article. It's funny to see MARTA's ideas, which sort of fall into line with the format I was trying to encourage in this thread.

My reaction to their proposals:



I approve, but with some reservations. The freight railroad corridor seems really tight and hemmed in with development. And it's not something the railroad is going to give up: this is CSX's main drag from Atlanta to New York, and they are presently spending billions upgrading it in VA/DC to allow for higher clearances. It's probably the most important long-term project the railroad has going on right now.

Currently, it's single track. Most of the time, they want all of their track to be upgradeable to double track in the future, or allow for sidings. So I think they have major ROW issues despite being on a rail line.

To solve all of these problems, I would estimate a big amount of money is going to be needed. They have budgeted $200m/mile which is a good bit, but it's a lot for a relatively short line to Emory which I think might be accessed by another form of transit more feasibly.

Not a bad idea, but I have some concerns.



Don't really see the big point here. It's a roughly 1.5 mile extension, and it doesn't seem like it will have that much better access to I-85 than the status quo (although it will allow commuters to avoid Spaghetti Junction).



Seems like a lot of money for a one-stop, 2 mile extension that just gets MARTA out to the perimeter. But it would help with access a good deal for commuters.



This one is really a head-scratcher. This is a 6-mile extension along the interstate, so going below $100MM a mile seems pretty aggressive. This wouldn't be hugely convenient for commuters from I-20, since the track would have to go north 5 miles before finally turning west towards downtown. Ultimately, by the time you've made it to Wesley Chapel you might as well just keep driving to downtown or where ever.

I still think my Stone Mountain extension idea in the OP is a better concept; it radiates outwards in a more direct fashion, serves relatively dense areas in Clarkston improves access to a park/tourist attraction, and could actually be a more convenient access to downtown than driving for a major development corridor (US 78, which faces either a circuitous route on 85 or 20, or fighting stop light after stop light on Ponce). This also gives intown people another destination that MARTA can actually take them to; since parking isn't free at Stone Mt, people would have extra incentive to ride. Presumably few people from intown would take MARTA to Wesley Chapel Road.

And I have a sneaking suspicion the Stone Mountain line is more feasible despite being a couple miles longer: that CSX railroad ROW typically has roads on each side of it, and usually has 100-200 feet of clear space between the two roads. That clear width allows you to follow a basic plan that looks something like this (on MARTA's existing south line):



The main issue would be grade separation; you'd have to close some of the existing crossings and separate a lot of them (the community would have mixed feelings about this; people would be mad where crossings get closed, but would like it where existing at-grade crossings with the railroad are made grade separated, since the train's horn would get blown a lot less at night). But building along train lines, especially wide ones, is a sound method: after all, it's how the lion's share of the existing MARTA system was constructed.

Contrast this with building along an interstate, where you need to actually widen the ROW, which is ridiculously painful and expensive when you are dealing with an existing freeway.

Moving on...



This one makes even less sense, to be blunt. A billion dollars for a brand new transit line to a location that isn't particularly urban or special and is only four miles from an existing station? That just doesn't make any sense at all. I can think of easily a dozen ideas that make more sense to me; many suggestions in this thread are far better imo.

Quick note about the NE line extension. This is really where Concept 3 as an approach to integrate multiple efforts comes into play.

They need to figure out where the intersecting point for a Gwinnett-> perimeter LRT and the NE line will be in the long run. The further out the NE line comes... the shorter and less costly the LRT route will be in that it doesn't have to to go straight to 285 before turning west. There might be a degree of posturing where this "hub" might end up in Dekalb vs Gwinnett and/or trying to get Gwinnett to chip in on MARTA to take it out to Norcross.
The HRT tracks currently already bridges over 285 and go for a few blocks. Realistically the physical track extension is only about 3/4 mile, has easy access to r-o-w, and can be placed on the ground without bridges/tunnels. Whereas if the new LRT goes to Doraville... it must travel further and pay for a new bridge over 285. They also want the LRT to be north of 285 on both ends, so really it is 2 LRT bridges over 285 in question without this small extension.

[NYbyWAYofGA]

Originally Posted by tomno00

bus lanes would do great in atlanta. it works great in NYC.

Curitiba particularly excels at this:

Curitiba's Bus System is Model for Rapid Transit | Urban Habitat

[bu2]

I don't think the Lindberg to Emory ROW would be that big an issue. A lot of the rail line is flanked by lightly developed commercial property and the last mile or so is owned by Emory who would be cooperative.

[RandyWatson13]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

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New rail lines among proposed MARTA projects *| ajc.com

And again nothing coming to Cobb.....I mean a stop at the Cumberland exhange would be so popular.....sigh.....

[testa50]

Originally Posted by RandyWatson13

And again nothing coming to Cobb.....I mean a stop at the Cumberland exhange would be so popular.....sigh.....

Yeah, if you're going to do some flashy, major, ultra-high-end expansion down the middle of an interstate to establish a new line, Cumberland seems like the completely obvious solution. I-20 seems like it was chosen primarily because it's in the Dekalb/Fulton footprint. What's next; a $1 billion dollar expansion to serve Palmetto, down in South Fulton?

[RandyWatson13]

Originally Posted by testa50

Yeah, if you're going to do some flashy, major, ultra-high-end expansion down the middle of an interstate to establish a new line, Cumberland seems like the completely obvious solution. I-20 seems like it was chosen primarily because it's in the Dekalb/Fulton footprint. What's next; a $1 billion dollar expansion to serve Palmetto, down in South Fulton?

Exactly. Marta has been successful with their North lines to Perimeter. They would make a KILLING with a line up to Cumberland and a line from Cumberland to Perimeter.

With Aerotropolis being built that was a great reason to expand down south too.

They need to get to the SUBURBS, where people would take the train to work, school, entertainment.

[scpatl4now]

Originally Posted by bu2

I don't think the Lindberg to Emory ROW would be that big an issue. A lot of the rail line is flanked by lightly developed commercial property and the last mile or so is owned by Emory who would be cooperative.

Being one of those people who lives right next to the CSX line in question (the easement ajoins my property) there are a couple of things I can tell you with firsthand knowledge.

1. This is a very busy freight line. All day/all night. There are sometimes 20 a day that go by my house.

2. It is a single track from where in crosses under Cheshire Bridge Rd past Sage Hill shopping center (this could be longer single track...I've only witnessed that much of it)

3. The track from Cheshire Br Rd is built up with a bridge that crosses Peachtree Creek (single track), and after it passes Lenox Rd (more on that) it is on progressively more built up land (think of the tracks on top of an ever increasingly steep 'V'). It would be great expense to run any kind of track next to it, because it would have to be built up as well since this is in the flood plain of the creek. Speaking of flood plain...there would certainly be environmental impact studies.

4. There is an area from the Lenox crossing going about a 1/2 mile (towards Briarcliff) that has houses right up to the railroad easement. Further down you have the Zonalite industrial area on one side, Woodland Hills on the other. I dont see how the first set of houses could be preserved. Also when this was originally floated they were talking about having to tunnel UNDER Lenox rd for automobile traffic, thus eliminating the crossing. More homes in Morningside would have to be torn down (not cheap either).

Then you have to get through Druid Hills which isnt going to be easy either.

So my guess is it is vastly UNDER estimated as to cost of this line

[NYbyWAYofGA]

I can't even begin to touch on some of things that you all have brought up. I am constantly amazed at the knowledge, insight and ideas that you guys have about Atlanta and in general. Questions are usually already answered before I even get a chance to respond. That's why I LOVE this forum. We definitely have some thinkers in here.

[RandyWatson13]

Transportation proposals ready region for change *| ajc.com

People already can share their opinions by sending an e-mail to info@atlantaregionalroundtable.com, and each meeting of the roundtable will begin with 10 minutes for public comments.

Someone should send in our suggestions! I'm going to send mine!

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

I can't even begin to touch on some of things that you all have brought up. I am constantly amazed at the knowledge, insight and ideas that you guys have about Atlanta and in general. Questions are usually already answered before I even get a chance to respond. That's why I LOVE this forum. We definitely have some thinkers in here.

I agree! I am constantly awed by the amazing things people come up with here.